[#iPug] 10 minute rule

[PACO]

Greetings ladies and gentlemen. iPug is going to be undergoing some changes and punctuality is one of the areas that I would like to address. Are people satisfied with the 10 minute rule and how would they like to see it enforced?

Currently the rule is 10mins however it is being abused on multiple fronts. Players are joining in at the 9min mark or a few seconds late and it raises the question.. should it really take 10mins to join a game? The problem with joining at the 10min mark is that you join but you're not ready to click right away which means that the game takes even longer to start. While the time is being put to poll, some things will not be..

BLUE CAPTAIN HAS UNTIL THE 7MIN MARK TO PICK A MAP. THEY CANNOT CHANGE THEIR MIND AFTER PICKING A MAP. RED CAPTAIN CAN PICK BOTH MAPS IF BLUE HAS NOT SELECTED A MAP BY THE 7MIN MARK.

I'm tired of seeing people vote for maps after 10mins. If you are a captain, there is no reason that you can't be in the server right away and make your selection. Assuming your team is tardy, you still have a whopping 7mins. Pick a map or lose the right to make your map pick. Blue captains who select after the 7min mark and make a fuss will be banned.

Joining the server and then going idle is unacceptable. You must be clicked by whatever the new time limit for pugs is set at. Failure to click will result in a ban. The only exception to this rule at the moment is for Shock Domination for when a player is unfamiliar with a map. Getting the game started with someone who doesn't know where to go is more of a hindrance than waiting a few minutes but this is the sole gametype where this exception is allowed (admins can use discretion one whether this is being abused).

Should bans be based on how late someone is? 2h if less than 2mins late, 24h if more or would people like to see a consistent 24h?

I'll be taking feedback from this thread and inputting it into the revamped rules. This is the first thread of many and we will be making more changes.

[Viperzz^]

[bear]

i voted 8 but would like to see 7

[vitrae]

i think whitechoc should decide this

[Darkside]

i like 2-4hr ban for being 2-5mins late. Sometimes (albeit relatively rare) people do have legitimate reasons to be late and shouldn't receive a 24hr ban, imo.
Maybe something like 3 tardy passes for short bans, and then 24hr bans for obvious repeat offenders.

The biggest issue (that I see regularly) is with late night PST/West coast USA pugs. Seems that there are rarely admins around to help with captaining (ex: resetting if teams are autocapt to someone with nocaptbrb tag) or general enforcement of noshow/late bans.

[HULKSMASH]

Shorter the better. It SHOULDN'T take that long to get a game started. A 40 min pug turns into an hour just because of this: get in server early -> nobody there -> after few pugs you stop joining early -> everybody joins late -> everybody joins even later. It's a vicious cycle.

I also think maps should be picked in the team selection process.

Pick teams, pick maps, pick ip => GO.

Also 'brbnocapt' = bullshit most of the time. It's occasional legit when people gotta pee. But there's some people who have it as a tag always. Which in itself is not very believable........ and especially not as a second after they're kicked from the pug you get a "pls delete pug ban". HMMMMMM.

Imo bot should have a function that you can .brb for 2 mins max and then auto kick you and you can rejoin when you're ready to man up and captain every once in a while.

[unrealshots]

Voted 8 minute tired of the 10 min everyone in server 5+ map pick 5+ tihs or that 20 mins into pug finally starts 2-4 hour ban for being late seems reasonable but I feel like "a few people" may ragequit :\

[Murder]

[Sauron]

Its not enforced at all right now. At 10 minutes you see 9/10 in server, do .last and you should be seeing a ban soon after. This never happens. I'd love to see 5 minutes again. There's no reason for even 8 minutes. Strict bans and shorter limit and people will catch on very quickly. More pugs will happen and less frustration. Might be a bunch of bans at first but it will improve drastically very fast.

[PACO]

[Darkside]

i think he means everyone in the server 2-3 minutes and 1 minute to set positions and click?

[vitrae]

I vote for 10 because if people cant do 10 mins they'll sure as shit won't do 8. Not doing 8 (or 10) is fine, we just ban and procceed. But there are problems that come with it. The first is the whine(choc). Dozens of admins sit around with ops looking pretty and playing pugs, the moment you ban someone you get whined and insulted at. So naturally the first inclination is to not want to do shit, i've tried it for months and I gotta say its pretty confortable. However if things are to move forward everyone should do their part. I have a thick enough skin for whine(choc) et all but I also have better things to do. The second problem is actually being around to do it (all the time) and speaking for myself I'm personally not around everytime. If im not around people accuse admins of buddy system (ooooo u just ban whoever you dont like, buddy system, banhappy fuck admins killing the game), you get the idea. Let me remind you that we've created a channel called #ipugbans MONTHS AGO if there are no admins around. A ban will still follow later on if there is good reason and I'm not afk. If bans can be avoided, it's actually better but allow me to say something: Some people have been here for ages and fuck up consistently and warn time is done for, some people only learn with bans (and some others not even with bans - See NUKE & company). So, to conclude don't be so surprised if you get banned for being 2 min late (after the 10 min). Perhaps the excess tolerance for a couple extra mins is the reason why now half the pugs start 20 mins late.

[csnafk]

Voted 10. Maaaany channels have had 10 and been okay, its just about enforcing the rule and it's fine.

[Sauron]

[Morpheus]

This always annoyed me but i eventually got used to it.

I used to be first in the server and ready...With time i saw this was useless..So every time the pug started i would instantly know i had 8 minutes free and i pretty much used them all the time...food, checking things online and there was even a time where i went out of my way to make some jello (LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL) true story.

People will get used to it. 2 minutes would even be more than enough to get your ass in the server. There is no vote for 5 so i don't vote.

5 is the way friends

edit: potato

[tigerclaw]

If the idea is the bring in new players then i'd consider keeping it at 10 or expanding this rule to 15 for new players

Also rather than a fullban for something like this i'd consider just using pugbans, this gives people a reason to stay and idle in the channel, spectate games and chat or whatever

I've also never played a good pug which was rushed to start, people need to settle and do positions, think about their map pick

Not saying it takes forever, but 7 mins is too low

[WeeDMaN]

I think 7 minutes should be more enough time even if players are new but I think I heard from a admin new players of course would be acceptable to take more time to learn map & get on TS but most times it's always same people pugging so everyone knows what to do & what to expect so no reason it should even take 5 minutes to get a pug started. I do agree with the pugban thing maybe for some rules it should only be a pugban & not a channel ban because at least player still can talk in channel & socialize with friends & other players just won't be able to pug but that's my input.

[Sauron]

Being a new player is not an excuse. New players should be directed to .rules and should be prepared to follow the rules. All it takes is downloading TS and setting the server, joining 1 of the pug servers to have the majority of the required files, and you're set. That all doesn't even take 5 minutes. Tired of hearing excuses for wasting everyone's time.

[d3R]

About this rule and more specifically the admins enforcing it: can admins please be consistant and ban everyone that doesnt click within 10 mins?

Earlier i was in a pug with Sponge and i was in the server & on ts within 10 minutes, we were still talking about the positions after 10 minute mark and i didnt realize i hadn't clicked so Sponge banned me. Fair enough eventhough i might have clicked in time if he used a mic and talked on ts. The thing thats really annoying: the next pug 3 players don't click within 10 minutes and Sponge only bans 1.

[Darkside]

how much longer does this poll have to be open before we switch to 8 mins?

Only 10/42 want to keep it at 10 mins...

[Sauron]

Many voted Potato or 8 minutes simply because a lower time was not available.

[Shotman]

Instead of doing a poll, just observe of how long the average pug starts. If 5 minutes becomes the average time than it set that to be rule. Also i might suggest a map pack for the new people to download before they can pug. Finally, maybe there should be a time limit of choosing your teams, some people just take there sweet ass time to select players.

[Sauron]

[Blue_Armature]

Conclusion: doesn't matter that much what it is, just enforce the damn time limit!

[Hermione]

6 minutes would ultimately be ideal. 3 minutes to stretch or talk on ut a bit, then another 3 minutes to load the game and teamspeak if you have a slow pc or something, but it takes me about 10 seconds to open ts and get on ut, i timed it myself.

[NakedMan]

[WeeDMaN]

I was just bumping this thread to see if this rule is ever going to be changed to 8 minutes since everyone did vote it to change. It would be nice to see this change because I feel like it still takes people more then 10 minutes to join the server so change it to 8 & get the banhammer ready. Also why is there so many servers I feel like at most their only should be like maybe 5 servers. Now it takes long because got like 14 servers to choose from & people constantly complaining & switching servers. Maybe use the other servers for Tournaments & Leagues or some shit just a opinion I am not the only 1 who thinks this.

[rev]

it should be more like 3-5 five minutes. It takes 30 seconds to start ts, 30 seconds to start ut and get in server.

[Nick]

[Monk]

Tend to agree. Even 8 is way too long. It needs to be short enough to changes people's mentality on it