Ban Previous Cheaters

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Re: Ban Previous Cheaters

Postby BUDDY » Tue Oct 27, 2015 11:31 pm

what i want to know is why is de`pain going around respecting cheaters?
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Re: Ban Previous Cheaters

Postby xios » Tue Oct 27, 2015 11:40 pm

PACO wrote:The topic of cheaters is a lot more complicated. We have a cheat policy for UT99. We don't have anything established yet for UT4. This is something that the OwnedWell team will discuss and the situation is further complicated by the fact that we might be adding some extra games.

I don't see a public thread like this yielding anything productive since it's such a polarizing and multi-layered subject.

I agree that it's a complicated topic but the fact it's a "polarizing" one doesn't mean that we can't have any valuable input on the matter in a public (albeit this very niche community) forum. I think if you're going to nurture a community you should be supportive and open minded about it. That comes down to being transparent on how you handle things like cheating and reflecting the sentiments of the community in your event's or leagues. There's a right way of approaching the topic and if there are those who can't do it in a reasonable manner, then they shouldn't be a part of the discussion.

People can say once a cheater, always a cheater - surely it rings true for a portion of those who do cheat but I've always believed in giving people second chances regardless. Everyone deserves the benefit of the doubt and it would be foolish to say every person just goes through a "phase" after they are convicted and come back clean. Lots of people cheat when they're young and careless, immature and unwise. Others continue doing it for various reasons, usually stemming from deeper psychological issues. We're all human, we all make mistakes, whether it's on the internet or in real life - it makes no difference. I think that everyone in UT4 deserves their second chance from the day they start playing, regardless of their previous convictions. It's a new game, we want to build and support a community which is merging several together while bringing in people to create a new one altogether.

Everyone has their opinions on how to handle cheaters and many are overly zealous one way or the other. I'm highly against cheating, especially when people are doing it to gain a competitive edge. Those offenders are the most dangerous kind because they infect the core of the community and turn people off.

I vote for those who are caught again in UT4 using any kind of high level cheat such as a radar or aim assistance should be perma-banned or atlast 3 years from any competitive tourneys. Any first time offenders using high level cheats I think should get around a year ban.
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Re: Ban Previous Cheaters

Postby GS3k » Tue Oct 27, 2015 11:50 pm

Cookiemonster wrote:What do you mean hearsay?

My last post in this thread tbh. I'm not even saying you hack in UT4 or anything, I just find it funny that you constantly hold yourself to such a high esteem regarding outing cheaters, and constantly accuse people of cheating, when you have done stuff like this.

PS I kind of vote no? Cheaters have a certain kind of personality that grinds me the wrong way. But honestly, the past UTs are so far in the past, ya know? I guess it'll ultimately be decided by the ownedwell top dawgs and the community.


Who do I constantly accuse of cheating? You've never even played with me. I'm the one defending a ton of people and trying to give them the benefit of the doubt. Like I said though what happened between Knell and myself is between us, that's the only person it affected and believe me we're great now. The funny thing is you're trying to pigeonhole me into this blanket statement and yet I'm the one that's the most open and ready to admit anything in the past - that's because I have nothing to hide.

Feel free to respond to any of the other salient points that were made anytime.
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Re: Ban Previous Cheaters

Postby RoOkIe » Wed Oct 28, 2015 12:18 am

de`pain wrote:Cheaters will always cheat ;/ It's in their DNA. They might go through a "legit / detox" phase, but will eventually go back to abusing the system as cheats become far more advanced and subtle.

I know of at least 2 cheaters in the UT4 community. They are very prominent players, too. I personally witnessed one of them hacking, but was unable to obtain a video of it. However, someone just this morning linked me to a video of this particular player wall-hacking.

Very disappointing. I had a lot of respect for this player ;/


How do you 'know' anyone is cheating? What proof do you have? Why do you not share who these '2' cheaters are with the community and present some evidence/facts? I haven't played against anyone yet in this game that I think cheats. Prominent players have played for over a decade in this FPS genre.
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Re: Ban Previous Cheaters

Postby PACO » Wed Oct 28, 2015 12:24 am

xios wrote:
PACO wrote:The topic of cheaters is a lot more complicated. We have a cheat policy for UT99. We don't have anything established yet for UT4. This is something that the OwnedWell team will discuss and the situation is further complicated by the fact that we might be adding some extra games.

I don't see a public thread like this yielding anything productive since it's such a polarizing and multi-layered subject.

I agree that it's a complicated topic but the fact it's a "polarizing" one doesn't mean that we can't have any valuable input on the matter in a public (albeit this very niche community) forum. I think if you're going to nurture a community you should be supportive and open minded about it. That comes down to being transparent on how you handle things like cheating and reflecting the sentiments of the community in your event's or leagues. There's a right way of approaching the topic and if there are those who can't do it in a reasonable manner, then they shouldn't be a part of the discussion.

It's not a new subject. The first thread on GU four years ago had people beating a dead horse. A dozen threads later the dead horse was turned into a pulpish puree. While it's not impossible to provide valuable input, the valuable input is very rare and buried deep beneath mountains of mudslinging and bullshit.

Cheat discussions like this lead to finger pointing, drama and an overall soured mood. Occasionally it is therapeutic to let people vent but a thread like this is very rarely productive, especially if it is discussing something broad instead of something direct. Past cheaters and cheaters in other games is broad. How to handle punishments for people caught cheating in UT4 might have at least brought new insights to the table.

My idea of how to run a community is probably something different than you are used to. I'm not afraid to make difficult decisions and promote initially unpopular guidelines if I think it is ultimately beneficial to the longterm interests of the game and the community. I'm supportive and open-minded and I have no problem with people challenging ideas but there is a time and a place and if you really think that a thread like this is the right place, then we will agree to disagree. This community is not run as a democracy however people are more than free to exercise their rights by deciding whether they would like to play and/or participate here or not.

I'll let this fire burn a little longer but I have no intention of importing mlut and prou rot and putting it under the OwnedWell umbrella.
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Re: Ban Previous Cheaters

Postby Steel » Wed Oct 28, 2015 1:05 am

I cheat.
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Re: Ban Previous Cheaters

Postby reflex » Wed Oct 28, 2015 1:05 am

i also cheat
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Re: Ban Previous Cheaters

Postby rev » Wed Oct 28, 2015 1:07 am

1) All people found cheating in UT4 should receive more strict bans than previously (possibly a permanent ban).

2) I would hope in the future UT4/ownedwell incorporates a similiar anti-cheat solution as CS where if you want to play high level games, you have to use something like ESEA.

3) If a veteran player who isn't known for calling other people cheaters has substantial evidence of somebody cheating, that evidence should go directly to an admin immediately.
Last edited by rev on Wed Oct 28, 2015 1:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ban Previous Cheaters

Postby northern` » Wed Oct 28, 2015 1:07 am

hey all
Image
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Re: Ban Previous Cheaters

Postby xios » Wed Oct 28, 2015 1:25 am

PACO wrote:
xios wrote:
PACO wrote:The topic of cheaters is a lot more complicated. We have a cheat policy for UT99. We don't have anything established yet for UT4. This is something that the OwnedWell team will discuss and the situation is further complicated by the fact that we might be adding some extra games.

I don't see a public thread like this yielding anything productive since it's such a polarizing and multi-layered subject.

I agree that it's a complicated topic but the fact it's a "polarizing" one doesn't mean that we can't have any valuable input on the matter in a public (albeit this very niche community) forum. I think if you're going to nurture a community you should be supportive and open minded about it. That comes down to being transparent on how you handle things like cheating and reflecting the sentiments of the community in your event's or leagues. There's a right way of approaching the topic and if there are those who can't do it in a reasonable manner, then they shouldn't be a part of the discussion.

It's not a new subject. The first thread on GU four years ago had people beating a dead horse. A dozen threads later the dead horse was turned into a pulpish puree. While it's not impossible to provide valuable input, the valuable input is very rare and buried deep beneath mountains of mudslinging and bullshit.


I understand cheating and all it's shit slinging baggage is old hat, but it's contents and context in the present time has different implications than it used to and we should be wary of that. I also think it's sometimes better to cull threads and leave in the good parts than let the bad parts ruin what can be a good debate. There are ways to funnel discussions without shutting things down altogether.

PACO wrote:How to handle punishments for people caught cheating in UT4 might have at least brought new insights to the table.


It's too early to know how they should be handled in totality because anti-cheat and ban management is still a very early work in progress from Epic's end with too many unknowns. False positives and the like are bound to crop up this early in the games development and for some period of time I'd imagine. It also depends on how well cheats themselves keep up with anti-cheat and vice versa. It depends on what all methods of analysis Epic provides themselves to battle cheating. I think bringing over the system that CSGO uses called Overwatch, in conjunction with a robust anti-cheat is going to be the way to go and what should be a basis for handling players in future tourneys or pickup games. Demo analysis from an Overwatch system with tools to look at things very closely (such as line of site checks, slower playback, etc) will be extremely useful. I'd be happy to be a part of helping with that process as well.

PACO wrote:My idea of how to run a community is probably something different than you are used to. I'm not afraid to make difficult decisions and promote initially unpopular guidelines if I think it is ultimately beneficial to the long term interests of the game and the community. I'm supportive and open-minded and I have no problem with people challenging ideas but there is a time and a place and if you really think that a thread like this is the right place, then we will agree to disagree. This community is not run as a democracy however people are more than free to exercise their rights by deciding whether they would like to play and/or participate here or not.

I'll let this fire burn a little longer but I have no intention of importing mlut and prou rot and putting it under the OwnedWell umbrella.


While the community may not be explicitly run as a democracy especially if it's bounds are limited by the very few who take initiatives to run it, the voice of the community still matters. I'm perfectly okay with you taking initially unpopular ideas or guidelines and risking them if you think it has a potential long term benefit. That's totally your prerogative given that this is your personal investment.

I think the real hope is that Epic can retain players by having much of the logistical aspects for running tourneys and the like built as tools directly into the game, essentially negating the need for irc channels or 3rd parties to do anything. The idea of a tournament or ladder system that is autonomous in many aspects, including managing cheaters, would be totally ideal and I hope it comes to fruition.
Last edited by xios on Wed Oct 28, 2015 1:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ban Previous Cheaters

Postby SHACKLE » Wed Oct 28, 2015 1:25 am

GS3k wrote:
Cookiemonster wrote:Hey guys! Let's use a blatant bot in a UT4PUG and see how it goes over. Who wants to try it? I elect buddy.
Terms and Conditions:
1) You must change your name and act like you've never heard of your previous one, because of all the bad decisions you have made (case in point: Ganja-->GS3K).
2) You must gain OP status in the channel currently used for pugging in UT4 and then with the amazing power bestowed upon you, troll people daily.
3) You must then make a thread on Owned Well about banning people who have cheated in previous instances of UT once it's in pre-alpha, when in fact you have botted in a previous games' CTF PUG yourself, showing everyone your amazing sense of judgement.

How does Shackle know any of this? It was his cracked helios that I used because he's the one guy I know with aimbots.


You literally made that up, you didn't get shit from me. I am not your friend. You look like a fucking Saturday morning cartoon. I don't even speak to you unless I am talking shit. All the churros you have been eating lately must be giving you an early onset of dementia. The reason I knew all about this was because fusion told me. What a surprise right? One of the loudest mouths and always first to accuse people of hacking in the history of unreal has some crazy fucking bot that bypasses everything. Not only that you actually used it in a PUG or should I say P.U.G that has anticheat running. Then you try to laugh it off like it was a joke but ynell sure didn't think so and the other 8 people in the server didn't think it was a joke either. Not to mention you accused Ynell of cheating too. You have some sick fetish because for the past 10 years you have been hellbent on believing I actually cheat as well as numerous accusations you have for others. You are holding onto this little thread of hope which is called wankstain which btw bbanks was right there with me. Ganja you just suck.

Since I told paco I wouldn't turn this into prounreal Ill add my suggestion
If there is someone you believe is cheating here is what I suggest.
9. Gather the top players. Like the ones who are way above everyone else skill wise. Preferably ones who have a lot of experience in the ut series already.
12. These players should not be who in the past cried wolf numerous times, because they don't have the ability to make an unbiased judgement.
2. View demos or spectate said player.
8. Make a decision
or find anticheat that actually works where you have solid evidence.
I see this on every game. Shitty players accusing better players of cheating. Sometimes you just suck and the other person isn't cheating and yes people can be miles ahead of you in terms of skill. Maybe video games are that persons life.
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Re: Ban Previous Cheaters

Postby clankiller » Wed Oct 28, 2015 2:19 am

RoOkIe wrote:
de`pain wrote:Cheaters will always cheat ;/ It's in their DNA. They might go through a "legit / detox" phase, but will eventually go back to abusing the system as cheats become far more advanced and subtle.

I know of at least 2 cheaters in the UT4 community. They are very prominent players, too. I personally witnessed one of them hacking, but was unable to obtain a video of it. However, someone just this morning linked me to a video of this particular player wall-hacking.

Very disappointing. I had a lot of respect for this player ;/


How do you 'know' anyone is cheating? What proof do you have? Why do you not share who these '2' cheaters are with the community and present some evidence/facts? I haven't played against anyone yet in this game that I think cheats. Prominent players have played for over a decade in this FPS genre.


i have played ut99 since its demo was out, so thats means i should be able to shoot 50acc with my eyes closed if a decade means 40+ acc... sorry but aim is aim and you dont just acquire that because you have played a game for x amount of years..

say what you will but some of the stuff happening now is horseshit i dont care about 144hz bs, as i have that and that is a 10% boost at most for an average player. ut4 has no anti cheat at right now, so i will go with once a cheater always a cheater until something is in place to at least give them a feeling that maybe just maybe they will fuck up at some point in time.. i just watched something lately that was posted that showed me 100% that person is full of shit and i actually liked that person so...

CK.
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Re: Ban Previous Cheaters

Postby reflex » Wed Oct 28, 2015 3:41 am

SHACKLE wrote:
GS3k wrote:
Cookiemonster wrote:Hey guys! Let's use a blatant bot in a UT4PUG and see how it goes over. Who wants to try it? I elect buddy.
Terms and Conditions:
1) You must change your name and act like you've never heard of your previous one, because of all the bad decisions you have made (case in point: Ganja-->GS3K).
2) You must gain OP status in the channel currently used for pugging in UT4 and then with the amazing power bestowed upon you, troll people daily.
3) You must then make a thread on Owned Well about banning people who have cheated in previous instances of UT once it's in pre-alpha, when in fact you have botted in a previous games' CTF PUG yourself, showing everyone your amazing sense of judgement.

How does Shackle know any of this? It was his cracked helios that I used because he's the one guy I know with aimbots.


You literally made that up, you didn't get shit from me. I am not your friend. You look like a fucking Saturday morning cartoon. I don't even speak to you unless I am talking shit. All the churros you have been eating lately must be giving you an early onset of dementia. The reason I knew all about this was because fusion told me. What a surprise right? One of the loudest mouths and always first to accuse people of hacking in the history of unreal has some crazy fucking bot that bypasses everything. Not only that you actually used it in a PUG or should I say P.U.G that has anticheat running. Then you try to laugh it off like it was a joke but ynell sure didn't think so and the other 8 people in the server didn't think it was a joke either. Not to mention you accused Ynell of cheating too. You have some sick fetish because for the past 10 years you have been hellbent on believing I actually cheat as well as numerous accusations you have for others. You are holding onto this little thread of hope which is called wankstain which btw bbanks was right there with me. Ganja you just suck.

Since I told paco I wouldn't turn this into prounreal Ill add my suggestion
If there is someone you believe is cheating here is what I suggest.
1. Gather the top players. Like the ones who are way above everyone else skill wise. Preferably ones who have a lot of experience in the ut series already.
2. These players should not be who in the past cried wolf numerous times, because they don't have the ability to make an unbiased judgement.
2. View demos or spectate said player.
3. Make a decision
or find anticheat that actually works where you have solid evidence.
I see this on every game. Shitty players accusing better players of cheating. Sometimes you just suck and the other person isn't cheating and yes people can be miles ahead of you in terms of skill. Maybe video games are that persons life.


Image

inb4 he calls me a LAN dodger when I've never once expressed interest in going to fucking Texas.

My favorite GANJA memory is him accusing everybody and their mother of cheating in TAM back in 2005-2006, only to have his team at the time (icon) be caught with a cheater (+hardass aka fake morhed). Too bad TWL forums and TAMpage (doubt anyone remembers this site) are long gone otherwise there would be a lot of embarrassing yet hilarious GANJA quotes to read.

Also:

  • brown noses people in the most cringey ways when it suits him, only to call them cheaters the next day like cookie mentioned with him/de`pain (he also did it with pure.skAven in 2k4 recently after skAven plowed him on ironic with a 120 ping, skAven had a good laugh about that)
  • harasses legitimate good players (turnz, chubby, knell, etc.) for years only to be spineless come LAN time and act like they've always been besties
  • recently adopted the whole "Hey, what's up man? I just won a U.T.4. L.A.N. guys L.O.L." way of typing which even his closest friends find weird as fuck
  • his frail ego can't handle being sent down into the losers bracket of a $100 tournament by a LAN dodging Canadian (context: http://pastebin.com/yWCn1QgG)
  • records 6 slow-mo videos of a standard 60 tickrate minigun kill with his phone because shadowplay is too complicated (1 2 3 4 5 6)
  • asks steel to show his hands on stream, probably has some hand fetish of sorts

The list goes on and on but I'll respect PACO's wishes and not clutter the forum with relics of the past, clean slate etc. I just felt it was necessary to inform everybody that only knows GANJA as GS3k and not icon.dub/Ganjisan/GSWAG to take everything he says in stride and that he has a long history of being a two-faced liar that can't handle losing in a video game. I am of the opinion that people don't really change after a certain point, but in the off chance that he's really turning over a new leaf (and not just trying to put on a facade in front of Epic) then kudos to him.

@GANJA: Since you've been obsessed with me for over a decade I'll humor you - feel free to ask Defeat, turnz, or chubby about the time piece_of_sheet came to my place and watched me drop 120 points/8000 damage in TAM. Or you could always go directly to the source: http://steamcommunity.com/id/peaceofsheet/

I don't want to take all the credit for it but let's just say he invested in a 144hz monitor and G400s not long after that. ;)
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Re: Ban Previous Cheaters

Postby Steel » Wed Oct 28, 2015 3:50 am

reflex wrote:[
inb4 he calls me a LAN dodger when I've never once expressed interest in going to fucking Texas.

Haha ya fuk Texass
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Re: Ban Previous Cheaters

Postby BUDDY » Wed Oct 28, 2015 6:45 am

Edit: This is not prounreal
Last edited by BUDDY on Wed Oct 28, 2015 10:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ban Previous Cheaters

Postby exixt » Wed Oct 28, 2015 7:17 am

These threads really don't get anywhere in the end.

Posting in Epic bread.
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Re: Ban Previous Cheaters

Postby Numb » Wed Oct 28, 2015 7:31 am

Waaait a second! Dobis said many many times to me that he was hardass in 2k4 tam! Aww I miss the dobis
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Re: Ban Previous Cheaters

Postby de`pain » Wed Oct 28, 2015 8:10 am

RoOkIe wrote:
de`pain wrote:Cheaters will always cheat ;/ It's in their DNA. They might go through a "legit / detox" phase, but will eventually go back to abusing the system as cheats become far more advanced and subtle.

I know of at least 2 cheaters in the UT4 community. They are very prominent players, too. I personally witnessed one of them hacking, but was unable to obtain a video of it. However, someone just this morning linked me to a video of this particular player wall-hacking.

Very disappointing. I had a lot of respect for this player ;/


How do you 'know' anyone is cheating? What proof do you have? Why do you not share who these '2' cheaters are with the community and present some evidence/facts? I haven't played against anyone yet in this game that I think cheats. Prominent players have played for over a decade in this FPS genre.



I personally witnessed one of them wall-hacking a few weeks ago. I rarely record footage so I have no tangible proof. It would end up being my word against his.

The other? I happen to be friends with this individual; thus, the whole situation is very delicate.



I've been part of the community for 15 years and can't remember a single instance where I had accused someone of cheating ;/
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Re: Ban Previous Cheaters

Postby Cookiemonster » Wed Oct 28, 2015 9:15 am

de`pain wrote:I personally witnessed one of them wall-hacking a few weeks ago. I rarely record footage so I have no tangible proof. It would end up being my word against his.

The other? I happen to be friends with this individual; thus, the whole situation is very delicate.



I've been part of the community for 15 years and can't remember a single instance where I had accused someone of cheating ;/


So you're basically saying you know for a fact that two people, prominent in the UT community, are legitimately botting, and you aren't outing them to the community? How does that make any sense at all?

PS I hate you bdy. Totes last post l0l0l, that was just post worthy imo? Does anyone else not see that? You should out who is hacking..if you know who is hacking. Tell us who please, I don't want to be competing against botters just because they are friends with someone. Makes sense to me. I love everyone bye.
Last edited by Cookiemonster on Wed Oct 28, 2015 9:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ban Previous Cheaters

Postby BUDDY » Wed Oct 28, 2015 9:20 am

HAHAHAHA COOKIE SAID HE WOULDNT POST AGAIN BUT HE DID HAHAHAHA
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Re: Ban Previous Cheaters

Postby de`pain » Wed Oct 28, 2015 9:50 am

Cookiemonster wrote:So you're basically saying you know for a fact that two people, prominent in the UT community, are legitimately botting, and you aren't outing them to the community? How does that make any sense at all?


Like I said earlier, I'm not going to accuse someone without video proof. All it would do is cause a rift between me and this person / person's clan. I don't want that.

As for the other guy... I'm not going to rat a friend out like a little girl. I'm going to talk with him when he gets on IRC. I will say, however, that he's not in .i clan.


It may not make sense to you, but it makes perfect sense to me.
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Re: Ban Previous Cheaters

Postby kud » Wed Oct 28, 2015 9:52 am

rev wrote:1) All people found cheating in UT4 should receive more strict bans than previously (possibly a permanent ban).

truth. dealing with cheaters in previous ut's was a headache since there were always ex-cheaters to point at. just perm ban from these competitions
ImageImageImage

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Re: Ban Previous Cheaters

Postby kud » Wed Oct 28, 2015 10:02 am

de`pain: brop i dont like that you're cheating pls don't do its anymore
cheater guy: okay man i didn't know you felt that way i'll never cheat again




thanks de`pain. CANCEL THE ANTICHEAT WE GOT DE`PAIN ON THE CASE
ImageImageImage

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Re: Ban Previous Cheaters

Postby de`pain » Wed Oct 28, 2015 10:04 am

kud wrote:de`pain: brop i dont like that you're cheating pls don't do its anymore
cheater guy: okay man i didn't know you felt that way i'll never cheat again




thanks de`pain. CANCEL THE ANTICHEAT WE GOT DE`PAIN ON THE CASE


lol touche`
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Re: Ban Previous Cheaters

Postby nvz » Wed Oct 28, 2015 10:16 am

Okay guys for our next showmatch/pay per view we are going to bring the viewers the GRUDGE match they want right now.


REFLEX vs GS3K


YOU'RE BANNED MATCH!
LOSER IS BANNED FROM #UT4PUGS, FUTURE TOURNAMENTS AND UT/OWNED WELL FORUMS.
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Re: Ban Previous Cheaters

Postby blackout\\ » Wed Oct 28, 2015 12:08 pm

inb4 ganja bragging about his 6 figure income and how he's a real life baller.
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Re: Ban Previous Cheaters

Postby InfamousRaider » Wed Oct 28, 2015 12:34 pm

You know what acting like a little girl is...
"I know something you don't know, but I'm not telling! na na na na na"

In all seriousness though, if you are 100% certain that someone is cheating you need to get that proof.
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Re: Ban Previous Cheaters

Postby Lineage » Wed Oct 28, 2015 1:01 pm

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Re: Ban Previous Cheaters

Postby Numb » Wed Oct 28, 2015 1:22 pm

There's no point outing players unless there is enough evidence to be 100 percent certain to the point where they can't talk themselves out of it considering they didn't get caught by anti cheat. The attention this thread has created has already ruined any chance of getting more evidence to catch the guy, so there's literally no point now. At least we can probably expect cheat free play from anyone who is paranoid.

I'll admit that I am the person who stumbled upon one of the well known players using a possible wall hack in conjunction with a slow moving aimbot on two separate instances. Coincidentally I was eating some delicious chicken (jack daniels bbq, yummy) BOTH times so maybe that has something to do with it. I was honestly just watching what I thought and still think is a very skilled player to try to maybe learn a thing or two. I wasn't looking for any suspicious activity in the slightest because I thought this guy was just truly good. I didn't expect to see suspicious activity, but I did. And no, gs3k never brainwashed me about this player. I had no preconceived notion that he was even a fishy player.

Anyway, I showed a video of this suspicious activity to some veteran players because while I believe I'm pretty good at the game and believe I know what is possible, I don't think I know enough about cheats or experienced cheaters enough to come to a sound conclusion.

After I showed them they all agreed that it was very suspicious and that it was more than likely a cheat. And this is why we are here now. Sorry dudes for starting drama. I should have kept my mouth shut. I have no intention of ruining someone's reputation if they are legit, but the videos say otherwise.

This post is probably doing more harm than good
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Re: Ban Previous Cheaters

Postby facial` » Wed Oct 28, 2015 1:39 pm

Edited by PACO: no

re-edited by Facial`: yes
Last edited by facial` on Wed Oct 28, 2015 3:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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