Gauging interest and getting feedback..

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Re: Gauging interest and getting feedback..

Postby PACO » Wed Aug 05, 2015 2:27 pm

massie wrote:PACO and admin team thank you again for keeping it going really appreciate it!

<3
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Re: Gauging interest and getting feedback..

Postby rev » Wed Aug 05, 2015 2:33 pm

PACO wrote:
rev wrote:I think we should start trying some suggestions that have been put forward in other threads to help mitigate this. Having talent much more spread out and attack friendly maps will help, but I'm not completely sold on it.

It's not a silver bullet but it's a step in the right direction. That is my focus. What suggestions in other threads are you thinking about? What possible changes do you see having any merit?


1. 0-0 games should institute the players dropping from the server rule after 10 min. In addition, maybe games where this happens the win reward is reduced by a point? So for instance, wins are worth 3 points but if the game went 0-0 after ten min then win is only worth 2 pts for whoever wins. Won't really help for playoffs/finals but would make the reg season a bit more exciting.

2. I think we should mess with smaller hit boxes, it wasn't really given a fair shake.

3. Have we ever considered upping the shot delay or is it possible? For instance, something like a 60 ms for everybody. Reg IG was the most fun mod to me and it had a lot to do with people being able to run flags more effectively because it was harder to hit people.

4. Teams receive points for caps, not wins. I would have to think about how the points would work but something like, each flag cap is worth one point and a win is worth one point.

Lastly, I think it would be a good idea to run a map making contest again but with a twist. I would be fine with donating the $60 for myself from the sniper tourney to it. I was thinking, there are a lot of people, like myself, who have been playing forever and have good ideas for maps but have no idea how to map. Would it be possible to team these people up with map makers and have the map makers take instruction?
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Re: Gauging interest and getting feedback..

Postby SunnY » Wed Aug 05, 2015 9:38 pm

LMS TOURNAMENT.
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Re: Gauging interest and getting feedback..

Postby massie » Thu Aug 06, 2015 7:09 am

rev wrote:
PACO wrote:
rev wrote:I think we should start trying some suggestions that have been put forward in other threads to help mitigate this. Having talent much more spread out and attack friendly maps will help, but I'm not completely sold on it.

It's not a silver bullet but it's a step in the right direction. That is my focus. What suggestions in other threads are you thinking about? What possible changes do you see having any merit?




2. I think we should mess with smaller hit boxes, it wasn't really given a fair shake.


maybe set 65 tr as it is on uk public server it makes a little bit harder to hit ppl i dont like the smaller skins
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Re: Gauging interest and getting feedback..

Postby d3R » Thu Aug 06, 2015 10:30 am

rev wrote:2. I think we should mess with smaller hit boxes, it wasn't really given a fair shake.


Oh? If i recall correct it was tried for about a week and within several maps everybody was shooting the same amount of frags with the same amount of accuracy. It was a nice idea but didn't improve the gameplay. I would expect the same would apply to lowered the RoF.

I don't expect much 0-0 games if there is a maximum amount of teams where dev players are starters. Afaik in previous leagues most 0-0 games happened in the reg matches, not the dev matches.
Last edited by d3R on Fri Aug 07, 2015 9:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Gauging interest and getting feedback..

Postby Sauron » Thu Aug 06, 2015 11:55 am

Increased speed is the thing to try. If rof is held tight, it just means people move faster which means a higher difficulty of hitting them and quicker travel for caps. Boosts will move you even faster, too.
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Re: Gauging interest and getting feedback..

Postby unrealshots » Thu Aug 06, 2015 2:52 pm

I really do like kevinsan1ty's idea about admins captaining though I've never captained which I should have a couple of times I will not hesitate to do so if this is indeed put into place.


SUGGESTION #1 - ELIGIBILITY REQUIREMENTS:
I could see this working it would and I think it should be implemented it will show who would be worth the $$$ and who is not. Overall better rankings more activity and a solid player list to pick from.

SUGGESTION #2 - Maplist Revamp:
Please bring more of this different maps even tho I cry or whine I'm happy to see other maps in the list and are getting play time its nice to have a change up and not a repeat of the same old maps (bye duku).


SUGGESTION #3 - Map selection and Multi-Mod Tiebreakers:
I'm all for a multi mod season something like iCTF/iDOM or maybe iTDM(3v3/4v4) and some other mod combined I honestly wonder if a 4map sunday would work 2maps in 1 certain mod and 2 maps in another mod or maybe a 3 map sunday? 2maps 1 mod 1 map another? atleast it gives a team that lost 2maps in a row a chance to get some points back if both teams show up and play on time give them some extra points?

SUGGESTION #4 - No Development Matches - 20-24 Team Season:

I feel like for dev matches to work it would almost have to be without any starters playing in it or maybe even have 1 starter to be the (captain of the dev team) The lowest salaried starter. But outside of that dev's were such a hassle and an annoyance every time we had to beg people to show up and play and if somebody didn't show we lost valuable points.
It was cool that it seemed like it was a separate league or division if you will that the starters were in their league and the dev's were also in a league of their own which it could work that way as well have a Div1 league and a div2 league "if you will" kinda thing.

SUGGESTION #5 - MultiCTF or Team LMS Tournament:

To be honest I could do either or the last LMS tournament was a friggin blast I even had fun watching the stream of it after my team was eliminated I could definitely go for one of those again but I would also like to see mutlictf have a chance I rarely pugged it but I would be down for it aswell. 60% for TLMS 40% for MiCTF
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Re: Gauging interest and getting feedback..

Postby rev » Thu Aug 06, 2015 5:22 pm

d3R wrote:
rev wrote:2. I think we should mess with smaller hit boxes, it wasn't really given a fair shake.


Oh? If i recall correct it was tried for about a week and within several maps everybody was shooting the same amount of frags with the same amount of accuracy. It was a nice idea but did improve the gameplay. I would expect the same would apply to lowered the RoF.

I don't expect much 0-0 games if there is a maximum amount of teams where dev players are starters. Afaik in previous leagues most 0-0 games happened in the reg matches, not the dev matches.


I don't remember this being the case but I could be mistaken. As far as I remember, there were maybe 3-4 pugs..it felt awkward since it took way more dodges to get off the stand etc but everyone's acc dropped by 5-10 %. Would be nice if somebody had a way to find links to those stats.

Angus' suggestion of upping the game speed seems interesting but I have to admit at first consideration it seems gimmicky.

edit: In order to make any headway into fixing this mod, I think it's necessary to point that the reason it's broken is because it's easier to hit now. Defense was always easier than offense but now it's amplified and, in addition, people die more so they spawn more in the base and can help their d more. I think the focus needs to be aimed at fixing that particular part of the game type.
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Re: Gauging interest and getting feedback..

Postby rasta-man » Fri Aug 07, 2015 1:32 am

yo
i am not a beast like others on ictf or sdom but sure i can get you some headache when you meet me somewhere on the map.
about the dev games ,my opinion is that this is the only way when new/middle skilled players have the chance to learn tactics shoulder by shoulder with the sensei from ctf being their captain so removing this will not help the community.
sticking to a captain and learn from his experience is the way to go for many players here.

about multi ctf style will be awesome if you will apply it like this:
-spwan somewhere on the map-----first thing communicate with your team and find where is your flag(random place for flag would be awesome)---->
"yo man our flag is on the roof now lol"----->
"ok on my way"
after grabbing the flag, stick very close to your team and find what other flag is returned----->it would be awesome too if you can cap over your flag point or over any other point from other team-----in this way you will not go all the time to same spot to cap but you can go to any spot you want (hmm if the other flag is there you can cap if not you must ask your team mates if they saw other flag returned)------>you also can return any of the other flag dropped but you can pick only your flag and run.
an example:---->my team is red colour---->
"man i returned the yellow flag ---->is here man--->you can cap----->
"i try to hold it steady------->
"come on man where the f;;;;k are you ,i am under heavy attack i can not hold it no more(here i fight with yellow team to not grab yellow flag)....shit i am dead ,yellow flag grabbed""" :D
in this moment you can ask the team where they saw the other flags and try to go on other spot .

so in this way you can go anywhere to cap, so will be a full 4v4 team battle -----will not be small maps i think .
i would love to see this system implemented,would be awesome.
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Re: Gauging interest and getting feedback..

Postby Lineage » Fri Aug 07, 2015 9:20 am

Seems higher echelon players don't like the dev games, yet the lower ranked guys who the dev games are specifically instituted for are obviously on the other side of the fence. You can't make everyone happy, but I think dev games make the majority happy. If you're a starter and don't feel like carrying the dev team every week..plan with another starter to take that week off, put yourself on a rotation. The top 2 guys don't have to play every week, especially since dev games carry a limited point impact. But as always, everyone in UT must win by the largest amount possible. Hence why there is 3d fallback up 7-1 in sprinta.
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Re: Gauging interest and getting feedback..

Postby csnafk » Fri Aug 07, 2015 1:31 pm

PACO I love you as platonically as humanly possible and support all of your endeavors you decide to bestow upon this wonderful community of asshats and retards that your team has carried thru the later years of survival.

Shine on you crazy diamond <3
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Re: Gauging interest and getting feedback..

Postby Cromaniac » Fri Aug 07, 2015 2:32 pm

1. Im definitely for implementing this, even solely for the pugs sake. Shame to see 170 people signed up and only 20-30 people pugging. It also gives at least some info about player's current skill, however, playing 3-5 games if you've been inactive for a long time won't bring your skill to maximum so the data will still be incorrect in some cases. But of course, nothing more can be done there. If players don't wanna show their skills, they won't and most can do it knowing they will get drafted 100%.

2. There is a side of me that likes the feeling of safety in such fallback-d sided maps, but it just doesn't function anymore. Choosing offense sided maps and creating new maps with less open areas (less chances of shooting someone you missed) doesn't only aid to the turtling problem but also brings more pugs because people need to learn them. So yas pls!

3. OMG YES!!! So much more fun to be had and fallacy's suggestion is great. Kevinsanity does bring a valid reminder that that way 1 player from the lineup cannot play but that player will survive it :D And that player can always be switched with someone else and that player can always pug more other mods to become better and recognized in them.

4. I assume the problem with dev matches with 24 teams would just be the amount of games that would have to be played which brings some obvious problems. Umm well, as you said, same amount, if not probably more, players will play ( in 24 teams there is more chances, overall, for someone in starting 5 to miss a week, while at the same time that person will mostly be easily replaced) while it fixes skill concentration issue. So yeah, definitely a go as well. Still, a problem of many players not playing remains. Getting them to play would take a lot more work, like for example organising another smaller division matches with play offs, maybe even on another day without streaming or supervision. I mean i could be wrong but i think people would be satisfied just to play and get their results on The page. The winner can also get a spot in 1st division as a reward for the next league. If im wrong though, there is not Enough interest of weaker players to play and thus being one of them who has it really sucks, but there is nothing else to be done.

About captains, if there will be problems, consider my suggestion of 24 low salary captains with a promised spot in the line up. Now does it have to be 24 of them or you can just fill the empty spots, idk. Depends on what will an average 5th of good-captain-teams be.

5. OMG OMG YES YES :D bug mentions camping in lms getting a little out of hand and then gives a good fix but probably not doable because of the available commands in a mod? Imo, it's just easier to have everyone's health drop with time from the beginning and gaining health on kill, as is already done in the only currently alive (in a coma) lms server. From personal experience it works great, but at the end a camper will always have more lives compared to someone who went on rampage. Thus health drop needs to stop with last 2-3 players remaining to avoid ability of camper to keep running away.

About MCTF, i'd even like us to have a little announcements of when few people would like to pug it.One of the reasons that game doesn't start as much is because no one really expects another 11 people to add. So 8 people saying on forums that they would like to play then and there could help.

TL DR: ONE BIG YES!
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Re: Gauging interest and getting feedback..

Postby d3R » Sat Aug 08, 2015 1:25 pm

Cromaniac wrote:About MCTF, i'd even like us to have a little announcements of when few people would like to pug it.One of the reasons that game doesn't start as much is because no one really expects another 11 people to add. So 8 people saying on forums that they would like to play then and there could help.


Good point, thats exactly the reason why i never sign up for an mctf pug (i totally would if others signed up though). Just throwing it out there: what about scaling down the maps a little bit and playing it with 2v2v2v2? Maybe 15 mins and 1 map a pug like 2v2v2v2 itdm? People been talking about a quick ictf fix, this might be a fun & quick pugtype.
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Re: Gauging interest and getting feedback..

Postby macz » Mon Aug 10, 2015 7:09 am

I would like to see iDOM and iCTF tournaments, I'm open to other game types just not boring ones ;)
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Re: Gauging interest and getting feedback..

Postby flowX » Thu Aug 13, 2015 3:26 am

Dev games are needed in any way ..otherwise u will always have lowest 20-30% without auf Single game. Ur Maths and numbers just Work on the Paper.
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Re: Gauging interest and getting feedback..

Postby NakedMan » Thu Aug 13, 2015 5:15 am

#1 - Good idea , should prevent cases like bustah not showing for his team last season. 3 pugs is also a pretty reasonable number.
#2 - Finally ... I hope to see Mesmerize out aswell as its a complete turtle fest in ig. Good to see new maps(and unplayed maps) like Adonis/Complex getting some credit.
#3 - Personally I like this idea as I would love to play idom/sdom etc but considering were speaking of an ictf season it would seem a little unfair to captains who draft their team according to iCTF skills to "lose" their key players for TB as they do not play other mods.
#4 - This will only work with teams of 5 or 6 and 2 protect drops , any bigger teams will result like last sniper season with everyone below the 700$ range not playing.
#5 - Dont care much for these mods , will sign up if they're up there. Still prefer ictf/sdom/idom over them.
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Re: Gauging interest and getting feedback..

Postby PACO » Thu Aug 13, 2015 12:32 pm

flowX wrote:Dev games are needed in any way ..otherwise u will always have lowest 20-30% without auf Single game. Ur Maths and numbers just Work on the Paper.

Yes, the numbers work on paper so give me an example for how it wouldn't work in practice? Seeing how something like this has never been attempted, I would like to be enlightened on why it can't and won't work.

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The bottom 20%-30% are still not playing on this team. Devs were great and served a purpose. In some gametypes and certain situations they make sense but if the community had enough people willing to step up and captain, we could have avoided a lot of problems over the past few years.

A lot of good feedback in this thread. I appreciate the people chiming in and love that people are making detailed posts. A minor update that I will add in is that the multi-mod season is going on the backburner. I think it could be great and will consider it down the road but for now we will probably roll out some iCTF.

I will start a few polls on Sunday and officially get the ball rolling. There is still a lot of things that will need to be ironed out but I'm confident that we can do it.
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Re: Gauging interest and getting feedback..

Postby Darkside » Thu Aug 13, 2015 2:44 pm

Epiphany
2 seperate leagues: Heavyweight and Featherweight/Middleweight Divisions.

Step1: gather signup numbers
Step2: rank everyone
Step3: based on data, split the league. everyone plays and it's not a stack sandwich

ex: 160 players sign up. 80 players are <$750 (on $1500 scale).
That's 10, 6 player teams (since everyone is active but need some flex for noshows/bench) with a 20 player FA pool for additional flexibility; for each Division.

ex 2: 200 players sign up. 120 players are <$900 (1500 scale).
Heavyweight - 80 players. 10, 6 player teams - 20 FA (same as above)
Middleweight - 120 players. 12, 7 player teams - 36 FA

There's definitely some number crunching involved. I'm sure if you put more than 5 minutes into the numbers a sweet spot could be found.


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Re: Gauging interest and getting feedback..

Postby RickJames » Thu Aug 13, 2015 2:58 pm

No one wants to play little league UT. Best solution is to just get 20 capts. Second best is dev games.
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Re: Gauging interest and getting feedback..

Postby Darkside » Thu Aug 13, 2015 3:08 pm

There is a minor league in baseball. People step up their game and get signed with the majors. jussayin
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Re: Gauging interest and getting feedback..

Postby InfamousRaider » Thu Aug 13, 2015 3:17 pm

They do it in virtually every esport too
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Re: Gauging interest and getting feedback..

Postby Sauron » Thu Aug 13, 2015 4:00 pm

I don't like that idea and here's why. The laming in the top league will be unbearable.
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Re: Gauging interest and getting feedback..

Postby RickJames » Thu Aug 13, 2015 4:28 pm

No idea why we should care about baseball or "esports" (lol that word). But the other thing is what sauron said: you need to water down the teams a lot so that the mod plays ok (because it's a broken piece of shit when everyone is playing good and no maplist will fix that).
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Re: Gauging interest and getting feedback..

Postby PACO » Thu Aug 13, 2015 4:33 pm

RickJames wrote:No one wants to play little league UT. Best solution is to just get 20 capts. Second best is dev games.

That is a horrible attitude and not true. Dev games are a great opportunity for players to get their feet wet and gain valuable experience. They have also been oodles of fun to participate in.
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Re: Gauging interest and getting feedback..

Postby RickJames » Thu Aug 13, 2015 4:53 pm

PACO wrote:
RickJames wrote:No one wants to play little league UT. Best solution is to just get 20 capts. Second best is dev games.

That is a horrible attitude and not true. Dev games are a great opportunity for players to get their feet wet and gain valuable experience. They have also been oodles of fun to participate in.


You misunderstood me, I should've been more clear. I love dev games and similar ideas (and enjoy playing in them), I just don't want them to be a seperate "little league" like ds was proposing. I like to see everyone involved together. I meant, no one wants to be isolated into the "kiddy pool" without being able to play with the big dogs.
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Re: Gauging interest and getting feedback..

Postby finalzje » Thu Aug 13, 2015 6:27 pm

I would actually enjoy seperate leagues more then super watered down teams to be completely honest.
5 highskilled guys can carry eachother and actually step up on a consistant basis, that however is not the case when having lower skilled players on your team.

Besides i can imagine not every lower skilled player likes it to be absolutely slaughtered, lower skilled players vs lower skilled players would be more competitive and i reckon, more fun.
Also not every lower skilled player improves from getting stomped super hard, most people need games just a little bit higher in skill than them wich these games would offer.

That people in the "kiddy pool" want to play with the "big dogs" is understandable, but most of the "big dogs" want to play against the "big dogs" aswell because it is 100x more competitive.
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Re: Gauging interest and getting feedback..

Postby d3R » Fri Aug 14, 2015 8:43 am

finalzje wrote:I would actually enjoy seperate leagues more then super watered down teams to be completely honest.
5 highskilled guys can carry eachother and actually step up on a consistant basis, that however is not the case when having lower skilled players on your team.

Besides i can imagine not every lower skilled player likes it to be absolutely slaughtered, lower skilled players vs lower skilled players would be more competitive and i reckon, more fun.
Also not every lower skilled player improves from getting stomped super hard, most people need games just a little bit higher in skill than them wich these games would offer.

That people in the "kiddy pool" want to play with the "big dogs" is understandable, but most of the "big dogs" want to play against the "big dogs" aswell because it is 100x more competitive.


Thats practically how the previous 4/5 ictf seasons went and they all resulted into alot of complaining about those reg matches (bad maps, turtlefest, boring, broken mod, newnet is 2 easy etc). Apparantly and understandably not all "big dogs" want to play super competetive (ie turtlefest 2.0) but rather play a more casual game on a sunday.
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Re: Gauging interest and getting feedback..

Postby Sauron » Fri Aug 14, 2015 10:03 am

It's not even about that d3r. A game will be just as competitive regardless of overall talent so long as the talent on both teams is similar. If its close to being even that is when you are pushed the most. Step up and carry a worse player or lose. Dont need 4 1500$ teammates to be competitive.
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Re: Gauging interest and getting feedback..

Postby flowX » Tue Aug 18, 2015 6:55 pm

I still think. ..dev games are the only way to give really everyone a Chance to have some games.
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Re: Gauging interest and getting feedback..

Postby flowX » Tue Sep 01, 2015 3:42 pm

so guys whats up`? @ community

are we goin to let ut99 and ipug die or are we goin to do the next ictf season in autum with 200+ signups?

many people askin me and telling me they want a season and they want to play etc..but not much of them answer in here.
if u want a ictf season and some oldskool ig matches ....just show ur interests in here ;)
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