Rules in leagues?

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Rules in leagues?

Postby Cromaniac » Fri Jul 10, 2015 3:03 pm

So i started replying to rummys post, then i noticed it just needs new thread, and then i started having fun and then it became TL DR, BUT I DON'T CARE, i enjoyed it for some reason. It is intended for admins and non cynical players. Consider similar concepts and bringing more ideas on how to make it as simple as possible if you are interested.
EDIT: wow holy shit, i've just put it on preview and noticed how big it is, don't think anyone s gonna read LOL

I definitely agree that this sort of gameplay going on, is boring and stupid af. Score one, play 5 d is abs garbage. (for attackers i see it as frustrating, but for defenders - specially boring) However, i understand introducing rules is complicated, will result in many complaints and take a lot of time to check all of them and in the end it is also very difficult to come up with a punishment for breaking them.

But maybe, we can introduce some rules, that are easy(er) to check and easy to follow.
For example, defining when fallback is allowed, when it is not, is a complicated thing to do but introducing a "rule" saying: when the flag is grabbed by your opponent(and you are an attacker), you are allowed to stay in your place (approximately) and DM at your position or advance to opponents base but you are not allowed to go backwards/back into your base or suicide.

And a second "rule", a little more complicated one, but still easy to follow and control. (i believe those 2 are the only ones needed) Simple rule saying how much time you have between spawning and reaching opponents base, when the first rule does not apply, considering the length of a map, if you are in the mean time, dm-ing (which is defined as killing more than x number of people in the middle of a map)
For example If you killed 2 or more people in the middle, your time from your spawn will be measured and compared to time given for that exact map. Multiple violations will be sanctioned.
If you don't fall under the category of dm-er you can take as long as you want to reach opponents base. In continuation, if for some reason you have not killed anyone and were just wandering around for some time, your time will be measured after the first kill you make.
If you are still alive after rule number 1 is no longer applied (flag is in the base), the time will be measured from the moment your flag was returned.

How will this rule work^
REMEMBER: You can still act however you want. As long as you are not severely ruining someones game, you won't get reported and you wont have to time how much time you have left. Times given to reach opponent defenders will be reasonable. On the other hand, if you notice one player kills you 5 times in the middle of a map, in 30 seconds, he is probably breaking the rule. You notice he does it almost during the entire game, report him. Do not overreact though, it has its consequences. (look How to stop flooding of complaints)

3rd rule: rules don't apply during stand-offs

Points loosing system.
Playing by attacker-suiciding after your flag is grabbed, constantly falling back to the base and prolonged laming in the middle can be punished, for example, for every 5 mins of doing it, by 0.5 points. Hence, you can do it during entire game and win, but you will receive only 1 point.

How to stop flooding of complaints:
After a complaint has been issued, 1 person will check the demo or two, and see how many times in periods of 5 mins has the rule been broken. He will then suggest a punishment according to the points loosing system. Then, the team being punished can issue an anti-complaint. After that, 2-3 new people are reviewing the content.

If they agree to the previous judge, the punished team loses their ability to file complaints that season as punishment for not being honest. (basically allowing all other teams coming next, to play against them however they like, while they will still have to stick to the rules and be subjugated to possible only 1 point obtained if they win) This team, then, does have one more chance to complain - if they still strongly disagree with all 4 judges, they can make their case with supporting evidence. Public poll will then be made, where players of involving teams cannot vote.

If they disagree with what first judge said, that judge will be given a warning and then suspended. The team that filed a complaint will also be given a warning and then, if it happens again, their right to file complaints will be removed. Again, do not over react.


Yeah yeah, i know, what absurd rules, right? I mean, easily we can just say: don't be a cunt, but people cannot understand that.

HERE IS THE BIG IDEA:
Monitoring something like this is not quite possible for every player, hence this will be checked only upon major complaints of people.
Again, this can still take a lot of time from admins or whoever will be in charge of checking the complaints but the point is - rule is there, be aware that by falling back, and laming, you risk losing some points. Rule can be considered broken after multiple breaking actions. (You can even set an exact number)

I believe people won't feel too restricted by this. I also expect it will naturally drive people off from major laming.
It may be a lot of work in the beginning, but it is a step towards the change that i believe is very possible among the players. And the work, can be spreaded among the volunteers who find this appealing. I ll volunteer first!

Worst case scenario
Week 1 is over, all teams have filed complaints = system ruined. I emphasize that this can work only if people will like this. If they don't it only means they like the no rule system and hence there is no problem.

And finally, to all players that find this stupid because they like to play 5d and feel secure about winning.. How about you stop caring SO MUCH about winning, and start about having fun and letting others have it as well.

EDIT EDIT: One more thing that can bring greater balance. Some teams end up with bad defense and can naturally say, our winning depends on the fallback and then we can say, well you drafted such bad team LOL but srsly, sometimes you don't have much choice. Well then, we can introduce some rules to the draft, where you cannot draft +2000$ defense or something, so that enough defenders out there will be left for all teams.
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Re: Rules in leagues?

Postby Sauron » Fri Jul 10, 2015 3:50 pm

No.
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Re: Rules in leagues?

Postby RickJames » Fri Jul 10, 2015 4:00 pm

Can't believe anyone would rather enforce arbitrary rules in a league instead of just improving the mod. Some of the solutions people come up with are hilarious to me- "make the teams as weak as possible so no one's good enough to kill you too much" "delete players in overtime" "just keep changing the maplist" (yeah that's worked really well so far).

The mod is broken, simple. It's like trying to have a tic-tac-toe tournament. It would be stupid because one strategy works better than all the rest and will always result in a win or tie. The only way to make it work is to come up with rules outlawing certain moves and stuff. So the players do that instead of just upgrading to chess or even just checkers or some shit.
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Re: Rules in leagues?

Postby Cromaniac » Fri Jul 10, 2015 4:10 pm

Haha, true. But there is a reason why rules are in " ". These are just incentive to promote more fluid game. Occasionally there will always be some fallbacking hence why i said "you can set an exact number of times that it is allowed". So it can be taken as not really banning certain moves, but creating more complex game ;D I think its rather worth a try, at least for one match week. If it goes wrong, no harm done.

also, i don't see what is the problem in setting new rules in a mod. Rules are essential part of any mod. Don't cheat is a rule, amp coming up every 1 min 50 is a rule. This is just a rule don't lame, expanded to make more sense and it is still pretty flexible.
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Re: Rules in leagues?

Postby Sauron » Fri Jul 10, 2015 4:40 pm

No cro, there's a huge difference between automated rules and ambiguous gameplay rules that would be damn near impossible to enforce (not to mention your proposed rules are silly). I would rather the ig rifle do 50 damage with no enemy boosting than that.
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Re: Rules in leagues?

Postby Cromaniac » Fri Jul 10, 2015 4:57 pm

How are they silly? And they are not nearly as impossible to enforce. One rule is setting you in motion, another is preventing you to fall back from a point you were forced to by the rule that is setting you in motion. Pretty simple concept.

BTW: One more ingenious idea. The move forward rules applies strictly to 2/3 attacker. 3rd designated attacker is allowed to fallback all the time. That should be good enough of a compromise. No 5d anymore, and potential 3d at some points for the insecure teams + makes easier checking of complaints because they can now be only on 2 players.
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Re: Rules in leagues?

Postby Darkside » Mon Jul 13, 2015 4:29 pm

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Re: Rules in leagues?

Postby miracle » Mon Jul 13, 2015 10:57 pm

Long story short, No one can crash on cros parade. this is probably the longest and most detailed post he has made and I mean he is trying.
Cro.

lets just do an example of one of the rules that we already have
... a name to throw out there..

Pulip
so pulip plays a match, and gets called out by the other captain. for cheating. or suspicious.

Admin gives captain demo.

captain, Can't view demo. or doesn't even look at it.

One of the biggest things is, your asking something you don't realize you are because you think people will follow it or figure it out easily. They won't follow the rule, some will. And when the others who don't are accused they send a demo. and tbh, I don't know about many of you all. But' I don't have time to windigo edit a demo to show someone backshooting or cheating. But, cro I mean that's just it; this game has lasted so long. And unforunately, the control aspect is gone. and There is no real fix rj.

There are new mods to play and new stuff to try but no true fix; and it is what it is. I'll play a turtle map all day long and just say FUCK IT. Cro seriously though, nice thoughtout post. ppl are going to bash; I mean theirs a lot of things that come into play with these things. Anguis (even though HES AN DICK ) was an old head admin, so was I. and RJ has been involved in the field. It's just things that can't be fixed and if they did BY a miracle get fixed, if you play a pug. you will realize there goes half the coimmunity. Because I can already list 25 + players who won't change. regardless of the rules, and guess what. thats a 25 player league next season that won't start.
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Re: Rules in leagues?

Postby crunk » Sun Jul 26, 2015 3:22 pm

Someone had a rough day at the office.

"IN A WORLD FILLED WITH LAMING AND 5D.....ONE MAN... ON A MISSION... TO ADD MORE RULES TO A GAME THAT ALREADY HAS 1500 RULES...." (in my blackout\\ voice)
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Re: Rules in leagues?

Postby csnafk » Sun Jul 26, 2015 3:52 pm

crunk wrote:Someone had a rough day at the office.

"IN A WORLD FILLED WITH LAMING AND 5D.....ONE MAN... ON A MISSION... TO ADD MORE RULES TO A GAME THAT ALREADY HAS 1500 RULES...." (in my blackout\\ voice)

WILL CROS ASSHOLE SURVIVE... (in my blackout\\ voice)
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Re: Rules in leagues?

Postby unrealshots » Mon Jul 27, 2015 4:59 am

Hello CRO. Do you want this BIG DICK in your ass? (in blackouts voice)
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Re: Rules in leagues?

Postby PACO » Mon Jul 27, 2015 9:55 am

I'll give props to Cro for trying. I think that everyone can agree on the problem but I don't think that this is anywhere near being a viable solution.

crunk wrote:Someone had a rough day at the office.
"IN A WORLD FILLED WITH LAMING AND 5D.....ONE MAN... ON A MISSION... TO ADD MORE RULES TO A GAME THAT ALREADY HAS 1500 RULES...." (in my blackout\\ voice)

1500 rules? What rules are there in matches aside from the common sense ones?
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Re: Rules in leagues?

Postby Lineage » Wed Jul 29, 2015 10:38 am

**ONE MAN, ON A MISSION**
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Re: Rules in leagues?

Postby Meth » Wed Jul 29, 2015 8:16 pm

PACO wrote:I think that everyone can agree on the problem but I don't think that this is anywhere near being a viable solution.


Isn't is the problem that accuracies are too high which makes it too easy to fallback/backshoot, but that Newnet works so well in evening the playing field for higher pings that it's not an option to drop it for zp as a way to lower them?

There really seems to be only one true solution and it's increasing game speed. 100+10 from Hardcore -> 110+10 from Hardcore? 115+10 from Hardcore? I've suggested increasing game speed a few times but it's always shot down with out any real objections.

Also, if anyone remembers 44oz, that was in the 140 game speed range and increasing pug servers by only +10~ would be no where near as fast as it was but would still help, slightly. uK's insta servers were also +10 speed from around 2011-2013, too, and most people didn't seem to notice.
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Re: Rules in leagues?

Postby Sauron » Wed Jul 29, 2015 10:04 pm

I've suggested increased game speed while retaining the fire rate (to maintain difficulty). I think it would definitely help, and it would speed things up all around. Faster paced boosts on offense would be incredible (and more viable).
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Re: Rules in leagues?

Postby kud » Tue Aug 04, 2015 9:28 am

I remember 110-115 speed was the norm while playing the ut demo years ago. It may be what made coret more playable as the only ctf map. That, and people being generally bad.
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Re: Rules in leagues?

Postby d3R » Tue Aug 04, 2015 10:31 am

Meth wrote:Isn't is the problem that accuracies are too high which makes it too easy to fallback/backshoot, but that Newnet works so well in evening the playing field for higher pings that it's not an option to drop it for zp as a way to lower them?


And start playing on euro servers? Cool!
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Re: Rules in leagues?

Postby finalzje » Tue Aug 04, 2015 2:12 pm

All temporary solutions, higher skilled people will get used to it more quickly and the skillgap will rise.
High accuracies and the "laming" will return regardless of any changes you make to instagib.
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Re: Rules in leagues?

Postby Sauron » Tue Aug 04, 2015 3:54 pm

Finalz, faster speed with same firerate means lower acc, guaranteed. Lower acc means more ease of capping. Just how it is.
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Re: Rules in leagues?

Postby blackout\\ » Tue Aug 04, 2015 4:24 pm

crunk wrote:"IN A WORLD FILLED WITH LAMING AND 5D.....ONE MAN... ON A MISSION... TO ADD MORE RULES TO A GAME THAT ALREADY HAS 1500 RULES...." (in my blackout\\ voice)

csnafk wrote:WILL CROS ASSHOLE SURVIVE... (in my blackout\\ voice)

unrealshots wrote:Hello CRO. Do you want this BIG DICK in your ass? (in blackouts voice)

Lineage wrote:**ONE MAN, ON A MISSION**

lmao.
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