Comparison of DemoRec POV vs Shadowplay POV

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Re: Comparison of DemoRec POV vs Shadowplay POV

Postby n0b » Thu Nov 05, 2015 2:17 am

GS3k wrote:That's a wall Sonic!

Sounds about right. You have no idea what you're talking about. I tried.
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Re: Comparison of DemoRec POV vs Shadowplay POV

Postby pb » Thu Nov 05, 2015 2:39 am

I'm not going to dispute the cherry picking, which these clips clearly are, but if you watch the video I posted for more than 20 seconds you can pretty clearly see how an aimbot can be used in other fasions than immediately snapping to a player. In the future you shouldn't judge a bot based on that.
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Re: Comparison of DemoRec POV vs Shadowplay POV

Postby Bryan » Thu Nov 05, 2015 3:03 am

You all are idiots.
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Re: Comparison of DemoRec POV vs Shadowplay POV

Postby PACO » Thu Nov 05, 2015 3:12 am

pb wrote:I'm not going to dispute the cherry picking, which these clips clearly are

It's cherry pickception. People are taking an inaccurate demo and focusing on the first mouse movement while completely ignoring the second shot where the crosshair is nowhere near the player that dies. There is a good chance that the crosshair didn't even land on the first guy at all but we need to cherry pick within the cherry pick.

pb wrote:if you watch the video I posted for more than 20 seconds you can pretty clearly see how an aimbot can be used in other fasions than immediately snapping to a player. In the future you shouldn't judge a bot based on that.

The video was edited out by n0b since it is a free advertisement for a cheat maker looking to make a monetary gain. There are an assortment of ways that people can cheat, some more obvious than others. We understand how triggers/aimbots/aim angles/prediction works. None of this is new, it's just not relevant. Cheats got a lot smarter and more sophisticated after the FunBot.

GS3K, I don't know if you're intentionally ignoring information or if it is just going over your head. Either way, I'm done replying since I don't think anything said on page three will open your eyes anymore to things already said on page one and two.
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Re: Comparison of DemoRec POV vs Shadowplay POV

Postby Cookiemonster » Thu Nov 05, 2015 3:23 am

It's already known who the 'highly respected' player is and the fact that he was completely, utterly convinced about that clip is quite frightening. Why did I even post in this thread? Damnit.. Now Gs3k will reply to me with another 3 walls of text that has nothing to do with anything. Sorry guys.
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Re: Comparison of DemoRec POV vs Shadowplay POV

Postby GS3k » Thu Nov 05, 2015 7:58 am

@nOb That's a line from Mr. Grins man.

@Paco No I understand and you're right to say that the second shot is not substantial. The first lock on was taken from the twitch stream and that's proven to be accurate as far as mouse inputs i.e. the spectator shadow play comparison Novaz and I made. When I line up the actors from Rookie's demk though the crosshair is more or less to the left and below the shadow play crosshair. I wanted to get at least ten clips or so of said lock on to prove a pattern but the cat was let out of the bag prematurely.

@Cookie Don't jump to conclusions, I showed quite a few of the top Euros the clip to get their opinion.
exixt wrote:lmao is this real life
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Re: Comparison of DemoRec POV vs Shadowplay POV

Postby KillEmAll » Thu Nov 05, 2015 8:15 am

reflex wrote:
KillEmAll wrote:Hiya RoOkie!!!!!
Been a long time, glad to see your still keeping things interesting. :lol:


On an unrelated note - we had an impromptu TAM pug the other night (been months since the last one) and everyone panicked about not having a server... only to find out the server you so graciously donated to us was still up and running.

You da real MVP, KEA. 8-)


The 99 and 2k4 servers will stay as long as they are being used. Even if only seldom.
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Re: Comparison of DemoRec POV vs Shadowplay POV

Postby RoOkIe » Thu Nov 05, 2015 10:55 am

GS3k wrote:@nOb That's a line from Mr. Grins man.

@Paco No I understand and you're right to say that the second shot is not substantial. The first lock on was taken from the twitch stream and that's proven to be accurate as far as mouse inputs i.e. the spectator shadow play comparison Novaz and I made. When I line up the actors from Rookie's demk though the crosshair is more or less to the left and below the shadow play crosshair. I wanted to get at least ten clips or so of said lock on to prove a pattern but the cat was let out of the bag prematurely.

@Cookie Don't jump to conclusions, I showed quite a few of the top Euros the clip to get their opinion.


To your point, I'll be sure to share this thread with 'top Euros' so they realize the truth about your idiocy. Lord knows you didn't just share a clip and say "what do you think?".

More like, "LOOK THIS KID ROOKIE CHEATZ, DID YOU SEE THE LOCK ON? DUDE ITS AT 1:44.444444 DIDN'T YOU SEE IT? PLAY IT AT .10 SPEED ONE PIXEL AT A TIME, LOOK HARDER, I AM BRILLIANT".
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Re: Comparison of DemoRec POV vs Shadowplay POV

Postby GS3k » Thu Nov 05, 2015 1:19 pm

Go for it! I've tried to keep things objective and fact based. I can understand why you would be upset but saying anybody who sees something out of the norm in thr clips is bad and stupid isn't exactly the most logical and intelligent response.
exixt wrote:lmao is this real life
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Re: Comparison of DemoRec POV vs Shadowplay POV

Postby RoOkIe » Thu Nov 05, 2015 2:41 pm

GS3k wrote:Go for it! I've tried to keep things objective and fact based. I can understand why you would be upset but saying anybody who sees something out of the norm in thr clips is bad and stupid isn't exactly the most logical and intelligent response.


The only thing I have seen you do is specifically ignore feedback from multiple people within this thread. You only see facts from your own view point, regardless right or wrong. You do not reason with logic, you also over exaggerate definitions, technical terms, and try to string events together that are unrelated or cherry picked from within hours and days of normal circumstances. Don't act like you're so innocent. You act so clueless.
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Re: Comparison of DemoRec POV vs Shadowplay POV

Postby kud » Thu Nov 05, 2015 6:22 pm

thread recap: what's the most accurate way of recording gameplay? That info is much more valuable than chasing a top 2k4 player with cheat accusations in ut4 pre-alpha
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Re: Comparison of DemoRec POV vs Shadowplay POV

Postby Sauron » Thu Nov 05, 2015 8:06 pm

What im gathering right now is that suspected people should shadowplay their games and upload them. That's about the best we can do for now.
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Re: Comparison of DemoRec POV vs Shadowplay POV

Postby Numb » Thu Nov 05, 2015 10:14 pm

RoOkIe wrote:You're a blatant dumbass. Numb is a blatant salty noob.


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Re: Comparison of DemoRec POV vs Shadowplay POV

Postby Sonic|^ » Thu Nov 05, 2015 11:42 pm

LOL 2 amazing threads back to back.

phpBB [video]


:OWgrinsgasm: :OWgrinsgasm: :OWgrinsgasm: :OWgrinsgasm:
They Don’t Think It Be Like It Is, But It Do.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DN43sCyEanA
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Re: Comparison of DemoRec POV vs Shadowplay POV

Postby RoOkIe » Fri Nov 06, 2015 12:47 am

n00bs.
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Re: Comparison of DemoRec POV vs Shadowplay POV

Postby PACO » Fri Nov 06, 2015 1:52 am

Numb wrote:
RoOkIe wrote:You're a blatant dumbass. Numb is a blatant salty noob.


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First the goat, now the salt. You are slaying me Numb.
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Re: Comparison of DemoRec POV vs Shadowplay POV

Postby exixt » Fri Nov 06, 2015 9:54 am

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Re: Comparison of DemoRec POV vs Shadowplay POV

Postby banks334 » Fri Nov 06, 2015 10:55 am

OK, seems like PACO and a few others are confused. The clips of rookie were taken from a spectator POV twitch recording. NOT EPICS in-game demorec. All rookie has proven is that DEMOREC, as recorded from the servers pov, is not in sync with recordings at the hardware level of the player (shadowplay). This is something that has cropped up in MANY FPS games. Shootmania had a demorec that smoothed players mouse inputs to make recordings more visually appealing!

From what I understand, the demorec is only off due to a camera bug. The x and Y is off by the same consistent amount. Don't get things twisted and spread misinformation that all recordings are now null and void.

Keep in mind there is still a difference between player 1's pov and players 2's pov due to the delta between player 1's ping/hardware, server response time, and players 2 ping/hardware. However, the mouse movements will still be the same just at different points in space (the hitplot trigger debate)... This difference, as many people have shown in this thread, is actually very little.

None if this is to be reflective of my own opinion on the matter.

Also, to respond to people talking about "cherrypicking" shots. There was very little 1st person POV during the stream and an even smaller percentage of that 1st person POV was of Rookie. You would think finding even 1 shot to be weird would be unlikely and yet we have clips of several shots... again, that doesn't validate anything said in this thread.
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Re: Comparison of DemoRec POV vs Shadowplay POV

Postby RoOkIe » Fri Nov 06, 2015 11:45 am

No one said all demos and recordings are null and void. That doesn't mean you can use them to scrutinize one specific detail on a monumental effort. Things should be looked at collectively, not in singularity only.

I am not going to waste my time recreating a twitch view to spec view to shadowplay view to show you will see the aiming fluidness to be off. It looks like a damn puppet master on strings when watching that, my shadowplays are fluid and not even remotely close to that.

Bring on the anti-cheat, I'll continue to play as I am from day 1 of anti-cheat implementation. Eat your heart out
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Re: Comparison of DemoRec POV vs Shadowplay POV

Postby PACO » Fri Nov 06, 2015 3:06 pm

banks334 wrote:OK, seems like PACO and a few others are confused.

Yes, reading walls of text with run-on sentences can be a confusing endeavor but we are striving to keep our heads above the water.

banks334 wrote:The clips of rookie were taken from a spectator POV twitch recording. NOT EPICS in-game demorec. All rookie has proven is that DEMOREC, as recorded from the servers pov, is not in sync with recordings at the hardware level of the player (shadowplay).

The clips taken from spectator are literally nothing and still inaccurate. Refer to n0b's post on page two where he overlays and compares the nvz clip. The crosshair is decently accurate but the player positioning is not. The crosshair placement doesn't mean much if the player's position is different for the spectator and different for the client.

The clip that had everyone in an uproar was the double kill on reflex and cookie. I was under the impression that this was taken via a demo and it appears to be re-affirmed by GS3K twice in this thread alone. This is the clip that also features the phantom sniper shot that is nowhere near cookie but the first crosshair placement is supposed to be accurate?

GS3k wrote:Another problem is that the replay view actually was used the clip at the end - but the rest of the clips were made via a spectator's live stream.

banks334 wrote:From what I understand, the demorec is only off due to a camera bug. The x and Y is off by the same consistent amount. Don't get things twisted and spread misinformation that all recordings are now null and void.

Refer to the first video called The RoOkIe Files and watch the sniper shots at the end of it. I specified in the post and in the video that the overlay was synced to this exact moment. Apparently it flew over people's heads but the syncing point in the first video was via sniper shots and the second video via timer to the exact frame. What the client sees and what the demo sees is inaccurate. You can watch it in slomo, frame by frame or whatever tickles your fancy but the demo in no way is an accurate reflection of what went down.

I don't know what misinformation I'm spreading aside from the fact that such a weak case wouldn't make it out of the starting blocks on OwnedWell. If people want to ban him from ut4pugs (it would be ironic) or whatever other sites and communities arise, they are more than free to do it but it won't happen here and that is a fact.

banks334 wrote:Keep in mind there is still a difference between player 1's pov and players 2's pov due to the delta between player 1's ping/hardware, server response time, and players 2 ping/hardware. However, the mouse movements will still be the same just at different points in space (the hitplot trigger debate)... This difference, as many people have shown in this thread, is actually very little.

Again, refer to the post by n0b on page 2. The crosshair on spec is decently accurate but player positioning has noticeable issues. How do you plan on calling someone out for a trigger or an aimbot when you don't know when the crosshair actually touches the model?

banks334 wrote:None if this is to be reflective of my own opinion on the matter.

Also, to respond to people talking about "cherrypicking" shots. There was very little 1st person POV during the stream and an even smaller percentage of that 1st person POV was of Rookie. You would think finding even 1 shot to be weird would be unlikely and yet we have clips of several shots... again, that doesn't validate anything said in this thread.

Where is your conviction? I don't understand how you can say "none of this is to be reflective of my own opinion" and a line below say, "you would think finding even 1 shot to be weird would be unlikely and yet we have clips of several shots." That's like me saying, I don't think that it's raining but you should probably take an umbrella so that you don't get wet. I think that your opinion is shining through but then again, perhaps I am simply confused on the matter.

If there are topics and issues that you think I am misunderstanding, please lay them out as clearly as possible. I don't think that I can read another wall-of-text where GS3K ignores all of the points previously made but your post (while I disagree with portions of it) was an easy enough read.
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Re: Comparison of DemoRec POV vs Shadowplay POV

Postby nvz » Fri Nov 06, 2015 3:42 pm

I like how rookie is a suspect, GS3K is the prosecuter and PACO is the supreme court judge.
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Re: Comparison of DemoRec POV vs Shadowplay POV

Postby Junkyardboy » Fri Nov 06, 2015 4:02 pm

I would just like to comment with the perspective from looking on the outside.

Whether or not someone is cheating, it shouldn't change your view on whether to continue playing/pugging or not. In the UT99 community, we've had a couple of players in the past who were in the spot light of being accused of cheating, but no one was able to correctly provide conclusive evidence to fully get them banned(with few exceptions)

The situation: Players leaving pugs when "x" player who was accused of cheating would join up a pug. Other players would leave the pug in attempt to boycott "x" player.

The end results: Less pugs, less trust, less fun.

You truly have choice to move forward from this and rise above.

It can go two ways:

#1.) Continue to play pugs and enjoy the pugs (regardless of your thought process on who's cheating/who's not). If you convince yourself that no one is cheating, as a true competitive player, you will learn to raise your own skill level and benefit from the entire outcome of the situation. Someone with true competitive nature that disbelieves the player they are up against is cheating, will surely find a way to self-improve and raise their game to the next level via. practice, setting adjustments, hardware upgrade etc.

#2.) Continue to accuse and hope things sway in your favor. Fight an uphill battle. Enjoy less pugs and live in a paranoid state of mind and ultimately stop playing the game you truly love.

Don't let others stop you from playing the game you love. Play the game, the cheaters will always find a way to slip up and they'll either disappear from boredom or get caught by an updated anticheat. Rise above of the cheaters and learn to play at a higher level.

None of you are going to get a Return on investment on the time you are investing if you continue to try and accuse "x" player of cheating. Trust me, I've been down that road and have made that mistake in the past. I've found my happiness just playing the game I love and when faced up against "cheat-like" players...There's also nothing truly at stake here, so try your best to enjoy the game that has been given to all of you to play and enjoy. Learn to smile and have fun and don't let cheaters ruin the game for you(whether they are actually cheating or not).

Trust me when I say this, you are much better off convincing yourself "x" player is not cheating and convincing yourself: I simply need to practice harder and play more to raise my own skill level to be stronger and better than "x"
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Re: Comparison of DemoRec POV vs Shadowplay POV

Postby Darth|UA| » Fri Nov 06, 2015 4:35 pm

I have a solution! Lets all download cheats, then we will all be on a level playing field! No one could complain then. Problem solved. Next topic. (/s)
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Re: Comparison of DemoRec POV vs Shadowplay POV

Postby xios » Thu Dec 10, 2015 1:41 am

There's an easy way to test if Rookie is cheetzoring.

Wait until as soon as the next UT build drops that is using the latest 4.11 unreal engine update and have him start playing in pugs / duels immediately. Watch and see if the skill matches the things we've been seeing.

Current cheats won't work on the new build right away as they'll need updating due to engine level updates. That will likely take atleast a few hours or more depending on the source of the cheat.
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Re: Comparison of DemoRec POV vs Shadowplay POV

Postby Sauron » Thu Dec 10, 2015 8:18 am

That's not necessarily true xios.
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Re: Comparison of DemoRec POV vs Shadowplay POV

Postby Cookiemonster » Fri Dec 11, 2015 1:10 am

xios wrote:There's an easy way to test if Rookie is cheetzoring.

Wait until as soon as the next UT build drops that is using the latest 4.11 unreal engine update and have him start playing in pugs / duels immediately. Watch and see if the skill matches the things we've been seeing.

Current cheats won't work on the new build right away as they'll need updating due to engine level updates. That will likely take atleast a few hours or more depending on the source of the cheat.


There's nothing to say in response to this troll.. other than you're a complete idiot.
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Re: Comparison of DemoRec POV vs Shadowplay POV

Postby diff`lx » Fri Dec 11, 2015 2:04 am

Cookiemonster you don't know what you're talking about, bro. :OWfacepalm:
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Re: Comparison of DemoRec POV vs Shadowplay POV

Postby Cookiemonster » Fri Dec 11, 2015 2:05 pm

diff`lx wrote:Cookiemonster you don't know what you're talking about, bro. :OWfacepalm:


I don't know who you are but you are probably an idiot too

EDIT: I have a slight amount of respect for you now based on your enjoyment of BERSERK. Love it.
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Re: Comparison of DemoRec POV vs Shadowplay POV

Postby detox » Sat Dec 12, 2015 9:05 pm

I can tell that rookie was 100% cheating based on how defensive his buddy cookiemonster is acting. Case closed.
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Re: Comparison of DemoRec POV vs Shadowplay POV

Postby xios » Mon Dec 14, 2015 12:45 pm

Cookiemonster wrote:
xios wrote:There's an easy way to test if Rookie is cheetzoring.

Wait until as soon as the next UT build drops that is using the latest 4.11 unreal engine update and have him start playing in pugs / duels immediately. Watch and see if the skill matches the things we've been seeing.

Current cheats won't work on the new build right away as they'll need updating due to engine level updates. That will likely take atleast a few hours or more depending on the source of the cheat.


There's nothing to say in response to this troll.. other than you're a complete idiot.


Just in case you or Sauron were wondering, this information came directly from Steve Polge. Yea you know, that guy who is the lead developer on UT. Unreal engine specific cheats (as opposed to d3d hooks, etc.) would need to be updated. If you have substantiating reasons why this isn't anywhere close to true, please feel free to share it. Or you can just continue to be condescending empty headed poster.

In other news, regular BYOC tickets for Dreamhack 2016 in Austin will be added and opening back up for sale tomorrow at 17:00 CDT. This is going to be one hell of a LAN with a UT4 duel tournament to boot WITH good prizes. See the links below for more information.

http://dreamhackaustin.com/tickets-2/

http://dreamhackaustin.com/2015/09/23/ticket-update/
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