Comparison of DemoRec POV vs Shadowplay POV

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Comparison of DemoRec POV vs Shadowplay POV

Postby RoOkIe » Sun Nov 01, 2015 3:56 pm

I am posting this in an effort to provide some factual information on the topic of 'EpicHUB DemoRec POV vs Shadowplay POV'.

And in reference to this question in a previous thread:
"Has anyone compared a shadowplay recording side by side to a spectator recording or a demo? These are important things to consider and look into before even considering anything as proof."

If anyone has a suggestion to put these two point of views side by side synchronized or can do it if I provide the MP4's, let me know, it would be helpful.

For now - I have uploaded the two POV's onto YouTube, there would be minimal lag as it's just me and bots on that server.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jY6EByCLm-Q
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Re: Comparison of DemoRec POV vs Shadowplay POV

Postby reflex » Sun Nov 01, 2015 4:37 pm

Perfect video that goes to show you how inaccurate the current spectator/replay system is. Further discussion: https://forums.unrealtournament.com/sho ... impressive

Also, this witch hunt is getting boring and needs to stop. RoOkIe doesn't fucking cheat and anybody that thinks otherwise is bad and should feel bad. The guy's been a top player while I was still playing low grav iCTF in 2k4 demo servers, and he's always remained consistent/active whenever there were significant updates to anti-cheat. To think someone with his prestige and LAN experience would need to cheat in a pre-alpha with 30-50 active players is a joke. Also, I've played many games (Call of Doody, Toxikk, etc.) with the guy hours after they got released and we always cleared out FFA servers no questions asked. I still remember how salty Fatal1ty got in Toxikk. It's not the best argument but I still felt the need to mention it because his aim transfers well in every FPS he touches. The dude is a gamer.

It's ridiculous to me that there's ignorant people out there that are attempting to destroy an honest player's reputation based on one clip in one of the most buggy spectator modes of all time. To those convinced he's guilty, ask yourself what's more likely: RoOkIe being reckless enough to tarnish his own reputation that he's built up for over a decade, or an extremely buggy pre-alpha having inconsistencies with its spectator mode (which have been documented on the official forums, see above). The answer should be obvious to anyone without an agenda.
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Re: Comparison of DemoRec POV vs Shadowplay POV

Postby BUDDY » Sun Nov 01, 2015 5:02 pm

While the topic of this thread is interesting, the overall content is not. Admins in ut4pugs keep talking about banning toxic behavior. While I think the term toxic is meaningless and too subjective, I would like to qualify spreading rumors, allegations, or accusations of another players legitimacy as toxic and should he considered for a timed ban response. There is absolutely no reason anyone should be spreading videos throughout the community trying to convince people that a certain player cheats. It should be reviewed solely by OW staff, league/ladder administrators, and server admins. They should then be able to decide autonomously on the matter. Riling up people in the community with regard to a possible cheater does one thing. Create a witch hunt. In my mind that weakens the argument that the player cheats because you're trying to herd people into believing a single outcome. Also, for that matter, ultimately the community does not decide if someone should be banned. Which is why privacy is important.
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Re: Comparison of DemoRec POV vs Shadowplay POV

Postby PACO » Sun Nov 01, 2015 5:37 pm

RoOkIe wrote:And in reference to this question in a previous thread:
"Has anyone compared a shadowplay recording side by side to a spectator recording or a demo? These are important things to consider and look into before even considering anything as proof."

Hello RoOkIe, whoever asked that question is a very thoughtful and insightful individual.

After taking a cursory glance at the video, it is quite obvious that there are major inconsistencies from the demo/client perspective. This was not unexpected and I'm glad that someone took the time to make the comparison.

reflex wrote:Also, this witch hunt is getting boring and needs to stop.

It's boring but it will never stop. Some people will cheat. Some people won't. Some innocent players will be crucified. Some guilty players will be revered. Some players will then download aimbots and claim a moral high ground. All of these problems are magnified if there isn't a decent anti-cheat that occasionally shames the players who artificially fly too close to the sun. The playerbase will need to see some heads roll via a proper anti-cheat to have faith in the integrity of the system. This is a legitimate concern moving forwards in a free game.

The most important thing in a situation like this is to try and keep a level head. Instead of immediately convincing yourself that a player is cheating, mull over possible reasons and explanations for why a situation went down the way it went down. In addition, nutty shit does happen in videogames and it is important to consider the frequency of it happening.

reflex wrote: I still remember how salty Fatal1ty got in Toxikk. It's not the best argument but I still felt the need to mention it because his aim transfers well in every FPS he touches.

Fatal1ty to gaming is what Charles Barkley would be to basketball.. if he tried to make a comeback.. today.

BUDDY wrote:While I think the term toxic is meaningless and too subjective, I would like to qualify spreading rumors, allegations, or accusations of another players legitimacy as toxic and should he considered for a timed ban response. There is absolutely no reason anyone should be spreading videos throughout the community trying to convince people that a certain player cheats. It should be reviewed solely by OW staff, league/ladder administrators, and server admins.

I think it would be easier to police toxicity vs people sharing opinions in private messages. I do however agree that there are proper channels to take if there are concerns and that riling the playerbase is not one of them. I'm talking about posts like, "I know some people who are cheating but won't say who they are." It's almost better to just be out-front than cryptic because then you just get people whispering and have an even lower chance of resolving the situation. I don't want people to be afraid to share their opinions or be shamed about their instincts and beliefs but at the same time it is very important to consider the fact that there is possibly an innocent person sitting on the other side of that screen.
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Re: Comparison of DemoRec POV vs Shadowplay POV

Postby Cookiemonster » Sun Nov 01, 2015 6:30 pm

I'm just going to bump this thread again for everyone who is an idiot - you know who you are. Love, me.
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Re: Comparison of DemoRec POV vs Shadowplay POV

Postby BUDDY » Sun Nov 01, 2015 11:07 pm

PACO wrote:
BUDDY wrote: There is absolutely no reason anyone should be spreading videos throughout the community trying to convince people that a certain player cheats. It should be reviewed solely by OW staff, league/ladder administrators, and server admins.

I think it would be easier to police toxicity vs people sharing opinions in private messages. I do however agree that there are proper channels to take if there are concerns and that riling the playerbase is not one of them. I'm talking about posts like, "I know some people who are cheating but won't say who they are." It's almost better to just be out-front than cryptic because then you just get people whispering and have an even lower chance of resolving the situation. I don't want people to be afraid to share their opinions or be shamed about their instincts and beliefs but at the same time it is very important to consider the fact that there is possibly an innocent person sitting on the other side of that screen.


I think private messages are definitely the better option here. While impossible to police, its a 1:1 transaction of information. People are able to determine on their own merits if they think someone is cheating. Bringing it to an entire channel's attention will just stir herd mentality. If a player is asked privately what they think about a clip, it will at least freely bring the idea of cheating to their attention. When they see an admin rule on said clip, they can then adjust their view based on experienced, well thought out criteria. When you place the clip in front of a large audience, the general opinion will swing with whoever is the loudest as well as quickest to gain quantified support, regardless of how qualified or justified that support is.

I.e. It is fine, in my mind, for numb to suspect a player of cheating and show records to his friends for confirmation. What is not ok is publicly insinuating that a player cheats when proof is not readily available.
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Re: Comparison of DemoRec POV vs Shadowplay POV

Postby DREW-TANg » Mon Nov 02, 2015 1:45 am

keep in mind that i'm not trying to imply that anyone is cheating...

and i'm aware that Demorec pov is obviously inaccurate for recreating the exact location of a player's crosshair...

but wouldn't instances such as locking onto fixed positions/pixels for extended periods of time still be sufficiently documented by Demorec? isn't the Y-axis the only thing skewed here?

can someone school me as to where i go wrong with my thinking?

also, i tried to line up the 2 clips and noticed that the game time itself is out of sync by about 1 second.
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Re: Comparison of DemoRec POV vs Shadowplay POV

Postby GS3k » Mon Nov 02, 2015 9:28 am

I'm pressed for time but you're right Drew the mouse movement - while still off - correlates highly with the actual track of the mouse that the player made. What really throws it off is the constant sliding and the dodging while trying to track the same point of a player (in this case a bot standing completely still) however even in the clips of question the cross hair was consistently locking to the same spot on fast moving targets and the player himself was relatively stationary. In watching this comparison from Rookie I've realized the xhair is not only lower but also slightly to the left of where it's actually being aimed - what this means is that the xhair from those clips was actually locking onto the center of mass of an enemy model and not the outside hip. You are also correct that the game clock is off by one second.

I took the clips and slowed them down and while they seem to be pretty off to the naked eye it becomes obvious that the mouse movements themselves are still being recorded and are off at the same points by the same amounts.

Image
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I would also like to add that personal insults are not constructive at this juncture. Just the fact that Rookie had to make a video trying to prove that the demo rec was inherently flawed is an acknowledgment that there was something that wasn't quite right about those clips. I would also like to throw in that this an apples to oranges comparison - the clips furnished were from a live stream and subsequently a replay and it also seems that there's a different F.O.V. being used and weapon show (which would make for even larger discrepancies). It also still does not explain the strange reaction to a player going up a lift.
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Re: Comparison of DemoRec POV vs Shadowplay POV

Postby nvz » Mon Nov 02, 2015 11:35 am

I remember a guy from UT3 a couple years ago named enoch84 who had this insane aim. Turns out he was trigger bitting and when we pointed out to him that he was cheating, he took the time to actually make videos proving he wasn't "cheating."

You shouldn't have to make forum posts proving that you don't cheat, because to be quite honest this makes you look worst and ruins your reputation among the community.
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Re: Comparison of DemoRec POV vs Shadowplay POV

Postby reflex » Mon Nov 02, 2015 12:06 pm

nvz wrote:I remember a guy from UT3 a couple years ago named enoch84 who had this insane aim. Turns out he was trigger bitting and when we pointed out to him that he was cheating, he took the time to actually make videos proving he wasn't "cheating."

You shouldn't have to make forum posts proving that you don't cheat, because to be quite honest this makes you look worst and ruins your reputation among the community.


No offense but that's an incredibly weak argument. You can't predict how a human is going to react to situations such as these and it's meaningless to draw conclusions from it. Speaking from personal experience when put in RoOkIe's position, I always laughed stuff like this off but I know there's people that would take a more defensive stance. Does that mean they cheat? Does that mean I cheat? No, it's irrelevant to the discussion as everybody is different.
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Re: Comparison of DemoRec POV vs Shadowplay POV

Postby nvz » Mon Nov 02, 2015 12:12 pm

I'm just putting out there people are going to get the impression that the accused Cheater is trying to "cover up" his or her cheating by making videos and/or forum posts about it. A good player just walks away and keeps playing to prove people wrong.
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Re: Comparison of DemoRec POV vs Shadowplay POV

Postby reflex » Mon Nov 02, 2015 12:21 pm

nvz wrote:I'm just putting out there people are going to get the impression that the accused Cheater is trying to "cover up" his or her cheating by making videos and/or forum posts about it.


Those are the same people that yell "WHY SO DEFENSIVE, BRO?" and think having a lawyer automatically makes you guilty of a crime, which has been disproved a thousand times over. Consider prosecution vs. defense in the courtroom, the defense should always be allowed the opportunity to present empirical evidence that contradicts the prosecution, no? I'll admit it's not the best analogy but it's all I can think of atm.

nvz wrote:A good player just walks away and keeps playing to prove people wrong.


Did you get that line from the "Inside the mind of every legit player" handbook? If so, I'll need a copy of that. :D
Last edited by reflex on Mon Nov 02, 2015 12:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Comparison of DemoRec POV vs Shadowplay POV

Postby PACO » Mon Nov 02, 2015 12:23 pm

@BUDDY fair enough.

@DREW-TANg you can't draw anything from something so inaccurate. I think it would mystify even the great Ms. Cleo and she would refund you your money if you asked her if Rookie was cheating.

nvz wrote:I remember a guy from UT3 a couple years ago named enoch84 who had this insane aim. Turns out he was trigger bitting and when we pointed out to him that he was cheating, he took the time to actually make videos proving he wasn't "cheating."

You shouldn't have to make forum posts proving that you don't cheat, because to be quite honest this makes you look worst and ruins your reputation among the community.

He's not making a forum post saying that he doesn't cheat. He's saying that the methodology of the people accusing him is horribly flawed.. which it is.

phpBB [video]


You have people making and publishing videos like this which is some of the most nonsense I have ever seen. You also have people streaming it and discussing it in pug channels while spreading misinformation and drawing ridiculous conclusions. I don't think I have ever seen so much nonsense lead to so much discussion.
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Re: Comparison of DemoRec POV vs Shadowplay POV

Postby rev » Mon Nov 02, 2015 12:44 pm

This debate is easily solved: Throw him in a lake..if he floats he's a witch
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Re: Comparison of DemoRec POV vs Shadowplay POV

Postby legionz » Mon Nov 02, 2015 12:46 pm

rev wrote:This debate is easily solved: Throw him in a lake..if he floats he's a witch
:lol:
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Re: Comparison of DemoRec POV vs Shadowplay POV

Postby legionz » Mon Nov 02, 2015 12:47 pm

nvz wrote:I remember a guy from UT3 a couple years ago named enoch84 who had this insane aim. Turns out he was trigger bitting and when we pointed out to him that he was cheating, he took the time to actually make videos proving he wasn't "cheating."

You shouldn't have to make forum posts proving that you don't cheat, because to be quite honest this makes you look worst and ruins your reputation among the community.
I don't recall anyone proving that Enoch was botting. Hell, you let him play in all the duel tournaments. He admitted to downloading a bot to see what they were capable of, but he claimed to have never used it on a server. That's all I remember about it.
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Re: Comparison of DemoRec POV vs Shadowplay POV

Postby nvz » Mon Nov 02, 2015 12:56 pm

legionz wrote:
nvz wrote:I remember a guy from UT3 a couple years ago named enoch84 who had this insane aim. Turns out he was trigger bitting and when we pointed out to him that he was cheating, he took the time to actually make videos proving he wasn't "cheating."

You shouldn't have to make forum posts proving that you don't cheat, because to be quite honest this makes you look worst and ruins your reputation among the community.
I don't recall anyone proving that Enoch was botting. Hell, you let him play in all the duel tournaments. He admitted to downloading a bot to see what they were capable of, but he claimed to have never used it on a server. That's all I remember about it.



UT3 was a small niche community and we let him play.
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Re: Comparison of DemoRec POV vs Shadowplay POV

Postby reflex » Mon Nov 02, 2015 12:59 pm

UT3 drama is spilling over, boys.

rev wrote:This debate is easily solved: Throw him in a lake..if he floats he's a witch


:lol: This is the best idea yet, I'm sold. Now who should have the honor of throwing him in? I suggest cookie, it's only fitting.
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Re: Comparison of DemoRec POV vs Shadowplay POV

Postby detox » Mon Nov 02, 2015 1:25 pm

PACO wrote:
RoOkIe wrote:And in reference to this question in a previous thread:
"Has anyone compared a shadowplay recording side by side to a spectator recording or a demo? These are important things to consider and look into before even considering anything as proof."

Hello RoOkIe, whoever asked that question is a very thoughtful and insightful individual..

This. Whoever asked that question might have single handily prevented many wrongful cheating convictions. We should be humbled as a community that a man exists amongst us that is capable of such high-level thinking to conjure up such a question.
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Re: Comparison of DemoRec POV vs Shadowplay POV

Postby nvz » Mon Nov 02, 2015 1:41 pm

Honestly the toxicity level of this community is irritating me. Stuff like this shouldn't even be happening but you know the paranoid jerks like myself are one of the ones who started this.

I'll begin playing regularly again when the bugs are fixed, and whenever we get proper tools to prevent cheating, that way we never see a thread like this again.
Last edited by nvz on Mon Nov 02, 2015 1:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Comparison of DemoRec POV vs Shadowplay POV

Postby GS3k » Mon Nov 02, 2015 1:50 pm

This isn't a witch hunt by any means, rather a thorough breakdown of some admittedly odd clips. Everyone acknowledges that the spectator system is bugged but it's not as if it's not recording actual player inputs. Even in this video of the inconsitencies it's readily apparent that it's consistently inconsistent. The crosshair does correlate to the same positions in the demo as compared to the shadow play. It's a slippery slope to say that becaude the replays are slightly off that they should be discredited completely - in that case somebody could toggle to their hearts content and not have to worry about being caught because the standard has been set that any glaring questionable shots are easily disproven. I have tested it out some and have yet been unable to reproduce such rigid and mechanical movement and have also spectated Rookie and been unable to find the same isolated conditions. I don't think someone trying to defend themselves is an admission of guilt either but it's shoddy and questionable logic. What would sway me is if Rookie could recreate smooth aim that could stand the scrutiny of a slow motion breakdown and show where a spectator sees the linear aiming that's indicative of an external program.
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Re: Comparison of DemoRec POV vs Shadowplay POV

Postby rev » Mon Nov 02, 2015 2:56 pm

Ganja, this is bad man. I have never downloaded a cheat and know next to nothing about how cheats work. What i do know, is that when somebody who understands this arena puts forth an intelligent case for or against it uses technical terms that often go over my head. Your evidence here is that his mouse moves in a rigged linear fashion instead of smooth?

1). You're choosing to play in a pre alpha non anti cheat environment. If somebody did want to trigger their face off, the answer is yes, they can. It's actually worse than not having anti cheat because we don't even have demos.

2). If you're not ok with that, you should probably play a different video game for a while.
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Re: Comparison of DemoRec POV vs Shadowplay POV

Postby Blimpo » Mon Nov 02, 2015 4:16 pm

rev wrote:2). If you're not ok with that, you should probably play a different video game for a while.

this is what i'll be doing..

imo recently there are quite a few people using some form of hax and it just seems to be getting worse and more obvious. i'd say there are even more people using some form of cheats than most people realize. just look at the inconsistencies in some of the "top" players performances between maps/pugs. i see players having absolute shit performances and then turning around and having nearly flawless games against even higher skilled opponents.

do i care? not really... and threads like this are a waste of everyone's time. at the end of the day if people want to cheat they're only hurting themselves because whenever/if-ever this game actually has a competitive scene, any REAL tournaments for any REAL money will be on LAN and/or client-side demos enforced.

to expedite the anti-cheat protection and/or prove to epic this is becoming an issue and will only continue to get worse, i vote that the entire pug community download wall / aimbot / radar / movement hax and have a weekly "pug hax" night w/ twitch streaming so we can showcase the "unreal" part of UT.
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Re: Comparison of DemoRec POV vs Shadowplay POV

Postby PACO » Mon Nov 02, 2015 5:27 pm

phpBB [video]


The video is unlisted but feel free to link it out and discuss it. The demo pov is overlayed on top of the shadowplay pov. In the first example it is synced up by the shot. In the second example, it is synced up by the timer. This is frame precise and via a 30fps recording. With more fps, it would likely look even more out of sync. The mouse is inconsistent on the X and Y axis and the player's own position is also consistently out of sync. This is all visible in real-time and without the videos synced up but they are synced anyways for emphasis.

GS3k wrote:This isn't a witch hunt by any means, rather a thorough breakdown of some admittedly odd clips.

Yes, the clips are completely inaccurate which could explain a lot of the oddities.

GS3k wrote:Everyone acknowledges that the spectator system is bugged but it's not as if it's not recording actual player inputs. Even in this video of the inconsistencies it's readily apparent that it's consistently inconsistent.

Wrong.

GS3k wrote:The crosshair does correlate to the same positions in the demo as compared to the shadow play. It's a slippery slope to say that because the replays are slightly off that they should be discredited completely

Wrong.

GS3k wrote:in that case somebody could toggle to their hearts content and not have to worry about being caught because the standard has been set that any glaring questionable shots are easily disproven.

Closer to being correct than any of your previous statements but not entirely correct.

Blimpo wrote:threads like this are a waste of everyone's time. at the end of the day if people want to cheat they're only hurting themselves because whenever/if-ever this game actually has a competitive scene, any REAL tournaments for any REAL money will be on LAN and/or client-side demos enforced.

Correct.

Unfortunately, the current situation without client-side demos and no anti-cheat makes playing this game on a competitive level slightly problematic. I have no doubt that some needle-dick dweebs will try to take advantage of it but surprisingly, I don't think that it will become a rampant issue with the current playerbase. I also don't think that an anti-cheat should be a priority for Epic at this point in time and that they should allocate all of their resources to developing a good game and focus on anti-cheat when it gets a bit more polish. Anti-cheat won't be the be all and end all solution since ultimately the battle is futile. Even with several ATC in CS:GO.. IT IS STILL A PROBLEM AT EVERY LEVEL OF COMPETITION!

I would also like to express that even if the demos/spec povs were 10000% accurate.. that is not nearly enough evidence to ban or even publicly accuse someone of cheating.

nvz wrote:I'll begin playing regularly again when the bugs are fixed, and whenever we get proper tools to prevent cheating, that way we never see a thread like this again.

cu never. These threads will always exist just like cheating will always exist. Look at the Olympics.. Look at the NFL.. Look at elections.. and you think that gaming is going to be the first area to put a cap on cheating?

TL;DR/DW Stop gossiping on Twitch, stirring the pot on IRC and making stupid posts on forums when you are using incredibly inaccurate data to backup your stance.
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Re: Comparison of DemoRec POV vs Shadowplay POV

Postby BUDDY » Mon Nov 02, 2015 5:57 pm

Viewing any demo unless it blatantly shows the physical HUD of a cheat being displayed does not count as empirical evidence, period.

Trying to view these demos and form any sort of conclusion based on that is absolutely ridiculous. It's like the scene in My Cousin Vinny where the 'eye witness' wasn't wearing glasses but magically identified the two defendants.
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Re: Comparison of DemoRec POV vs Shadowplay POV

Postby beck » Mon Nov 02, 2015 6:17 pm

Anarchy said: "What, uh..?"
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Re: Comparison of DemoRec POV vs Shadowplay POV

Postby RoOkIe » Mon Nov 02, 2015 7:38 pm

GS3k wrote:I'm pressed for time

Yet you find the time to post 8 JPG images and go into detail about your illogical theories yet again.

GS3k wrote:I would also like to add that personal insults are not constructive at this juncture. Just the fact that Rookie had to make a video trying to prove that the demo rec was inherently flawed is an acknowledgment that there was something that wasn't quite right about those clips.

No, you idiot - I didn't have to make anything and I am not 'trying'. It's clear to anyone with common sense, it's inaccurate to believe everything you see from a demorec or spectator view. You and your gang of retards have been smug and 100% about a clip that isn't even realistic to view as a baseline for scrutiny, in the mean time making accusations about me and posting your lawl comments on YouTube shit you put together.

GS3k wrote:I would also like to throw in that this an apples to oranges comparison - the clips furnished were from a live stream and subsequently a replay and it also seems that there's a different F.O.V. being used and weapon show (which would make for even larger discrepancies). It also still does not explain the strange reaction to a player going up a lift.

Apples and oranges? Are you this stupid? Oh, yes you are. My FOV is the same for the DemoRec and Shadowplay, DemoRec forces the weapon model on while I play with it off. Wtf are you talking about the lift? I swear you make shit up in that head of yours so quick.

nvz wrote:I'm just putting out there people are going to get the impression that the accused Cheater is trying to "cover up" his or her cheating by making videos and/or forum posts about it. A good player just walks away and keeps playing to prove people wrong.

What are you talking about? A good player just walks away and keeps playing to prove people wrong...Sorry but in my head that sounds so stupid. As I continue to top CTF pugs or TDM/Duels, you and your cronies just throw it up to "he's hacking", and if I do bad, "he turned it off". You guys are hopeless.

According to your logic I should just go into a hole and ignore everyone and let you continue to attack me and my reputation. Sorry, you guys are all dumb and it's quite easy for me to refute your logic.

I will continue to defend myself as your accusations are retarded, as mentioned before. Get mad all you want, don't play the game, I don't care. I'll continue to play the game because I enjoy it and you and your paranoid friends will continue to be salty as you lose or are scared to actually compete. I didn't even create this post to draw you trolls out of your caves but obviously it was great troll bait.
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Re: Comparison of DemoRec POV vs Shadowplay POV

Postby Cookiemonster » Mon Nov 02, 2015 8:12 pm

Making an obligatory, sarcastic and then realistic post in a run-on sentence 'I think because like other people have really good games sometimes that like a lot of the 'top' (lol yeh right plebs) players hack because they beat me down sometimes when everyone knows I'm a better player duhhh when in reality maybe some players just don't care to play at a top level in legendary UT4Pugs and have other stuff going on in the background which prevents them from being so l33t some of the time'
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Re: Comparison of DemoRec POV vs Shadowplay POV

Postby DREW-TANg » Tue Nov 03, 2015 3:54 pm

PACO wrote:
phpBB [video]


So not even the X-axis is safe, got it.
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Re: Comparison of DemoRec POV vs Shadowplay POV

Postby InfamousRaider » Tue Nov 03, 2015 3:58 pm

PACO wrote:
phpBB [video]

I'm actually curious what this overlay would look like for UT99. A lot of people questioned newnets demo recording accuracy. With shadow play more common now we could really put this to the test.
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