Questions For PUG Enthusiasts

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Questions For PUG Enthusiasts

Postby Mulsiphix » Sun Sep 13, 2015 12:51 am

I recently played my first PUG and fell in love with the concept. But the learning curve has been high and criticism from other players has been harsh when I do something considered stupid for a PUG match. For example, I recently learned that playing good offense means teleporting directly to the enemy base, only engaging in combat along the way if it concerns power-ups, try to only grab weapons at the enemy base, and if someone else gets the flag my job is to cover them until they die or score.

This is nothing like playing by yourself on a public and even farther removed for experienced FPS gamer's coming to UT for the first time. I think many people will move on rather than give this experience a solid chance. So I'd like to know what advice you would give a newcomer concerning any of the following subjects:

PUG lingo (cherrypicking, the stick, etc...)
Basic strategies/expectations for defense and offence roles
Concerning communication, what should/shouldn't they be doing?
Any general advice or suggestions about PUGing?

I plan to write a guide from the information contributed for new players to reference. Credit will be given, of course. Any help is greatly appreciated! Note: This PUG I played was not affiliated with Owned Well. But this community is full of the type of folks I'm trying to reach :D.
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Re: Questions For PUG Enthusiasts

Postby RickJames » Sun Sep 13, 2015 3:26 am

Sounds like you already learned a lot! If people are harsh with you, fuck em. SunnY told me to kill myself during one of my first ictf pugs, neckbeards aren't the friendliest individuals.

Cherry picking means trying to grab the enemy flag instead of covering a teammate who already had it (e.g. waiting in the enemy base on the stand while your mate runs out uncovered and then "cherry picking" him by taking the flag off the stand when he dies. It's generally bad but can be a good tactic when done intentionally sometimes. Have a guy act as bait and grab, run, and die uncovered to get the enemy D out of position, then go in stacked up and make a grab in the newly vacated base while calling for cover from your mid player.

The stick just means the flag stand.

Call out enemies coming into your base ("one coming in shock" or "one in high") and call where the enemy flag carrier is or where you are if you have the flag. Say when you're about to grab to coordinate with others. Call when poweruo times are taken. Listen to what other people say to learn more comms!

Idk if the pug scene has a future, at least on irc, but these are good tips for competitive ctf in general!
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Re: Questions For PUG Enthusiasts

Postby Mulsiphix » Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:40 pm

Thank you RickJames! I really appreciate the feedback. I heard a new one last night. What is trolling?
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Re: Questions For PUG Enthusiasts

Postby RickJames » Sun Sep 13, 2015 6:20 pm

Trolling is just a really broad term for trying to get a reaction out of someone, for example by acting dumb or provocative. An example would be intentionally cherry picking your team mates in order to make them angry. It has a lot of uses, it's a general internet-related term.
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Re: Questions For PUG Enthusiasts

Postby Mulsiphix » Sun Sep 27, 2015 1:34 am

I hear this one a lot and it seems to be pretty versatile in its usage. What does "push" mean? Example: "Alright guys, lets push at the start of the second half"
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Re: Questions For PUG Enthusiasts

Postby exixt » Sun Sep 27, 2015 6:25 am

You put even more pressure on their defense with running for example 4 offense instead of the ususal 3 in ictf (can be practically any mode, but just gave an example).
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Re: Questions For PUG Enthusiasts

Postby Mulsiphix » Sun Sep 27, 2015 2:23 pm

exixt wrote:You put even more pressure on their defense with running for example 4 offense instead of the ususal 3 in ictf (can be practically any mode, but just gave an example).

I rarely hear any player names when someone calls for a push. So is it a call to arms type of situation? Example: "Everybody drop what you are doing and help accomplish this task!". Just trying to figure out how I can explain it clearly to a newbie before their first pug, so that when they hear it they know what to do.

EDIT
Alright I think I'll go with this explanation, unless anyone has a critique.

Push: First, the example. In a CTF match the captain says; "We need to push at the start of the second half." This would mean to get grab the closest weapon and get to the enemy flag as soon as humanly possible. With all offense players doing this at the same time, the hope is to catch the enemy defense out of position. The captain may also add that four or all five players should push for that first attempt to grab the flag. At its core the term means that the offense needs to apply offensive pressure in order to make something happen.
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Re: Questions For PUG Enthusiasts

Postby Mulsiphix » Sun Sep 27, 2015 6:46 pm

Is "D Up" a real term? Someone mentioned it in a IRC chat today but I haven't heard it in game myself.
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Re: Questions For PUG Enthusiasts

Postby Sonic|^ » Mon Sep 28, 2015 9:17 pm

Mulsiphix wrote:Is "D Up" a real term? Someone mentioned it in a IRC chat today but I haven't heard it in game myself.



It's usually a term used after/during a push. "Push up" means a mid player or defender will push to the enemy's base to try to get a cap.

You use "D Up" AFTER a push, if you manage to get a cap and tie the game, or take the lead. You should NEVER "push up" if you have the lead.

You use "D UP" DURING a push if the ENEMY is pushing 4-5 attackers. So you say "D Up" or "Drop Back".

Hope that makes some sense.
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Re: Questions For PUG Enthusiasts

Postby Mulsiphix » Fri Oct 02, 2015 12:43 am

Thank you very much Sonic|^. It makes perfect sense :P

I have a few new questions :oops::
  • Is "Drop Back" exclusive to "D Up" or can it be used for other situations as well?
  • Is there a specific term that is used to tell everybody to return to their normal roles after something like a Push or Push Up situation?
  • Does "Stacked" mean a player with multiple power-ups or does it specifically mean a player with UDamage and Shield Belt?
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Re: Questions For PUG Enthusiasts

Postby chicken- » Fri Oct 02, 2015 9:08 pm

Drop back is a general term when the defense feels like they are not going to be able to cut off the flag carrier, so typically if you aren't already engaged you would try to cut off the enemy flag carrier...if your team has good comms you might be able to surprise the EFC by pouncing on them when they enter their base. If your team has bad comms or lost track of them, you'd want to chill in Mid and be on the lookout and call it out immediately for everyone else. This comes down to experience and what you feel is the most useful thing to do in that moment.

As far as returning to your normal roles, by default you should be returning to your role the moment you die in a "push" unless it's the last minute or two of the game and you're desperate for caps. When somebody says "we're going to push when the second half starts", you would typically be pushing 4 or 5 offense and as a defender my goal would be to inflict as much damage on their team as quickly as possible and die in time to hopefully respawn and defend/seal our base.

Stacked means players with lots of health/armor.
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Re: Questions For PUG Enthusiasts

Postby banks334 » Mon Oct 05, 2015 11:01 am

Great info in this thread! Maybe we can add an official "guide" as a link in the irc !Rules function and channel topic.

Keep in mind that positions can get even more specific than just offense and defense. For example:

Forward Defender: generally a good hitscan player that may also "push up" to bring in the flag carrier
Flag Defender: generally a good spammer

Flag grabber: generally someone who moves well and can string together runs. Some carriers focus on "cheesing" (using pistons jumps and movement), and some carriers focus on fragging their way.
Cover: generally a second offensive player who grabs but focuses more on providing a path for the carrier. Positioning in UT4 is very important. You want to try to stay ahead of your flag carrier rather then leave it to them to spearhead through the various choke-points. You should also be the guy with your translocator out in sketchy situations. Hopefully your "mid" player is there to get the kills while you get the clutch pickups!
Mid: generally a well rounded player, or frag oriented player, who uses their positioning to effectively cover offense and provide support for defense when needed. This is a very dynamic position that can range from being a dedicated offensive player to focusing more on defense and map control. Pistola is a good example of a map where you want someone waiting in mid to pick up kills as the offense makes it out of the base. Vault city is another map where having someone in mid doing damage and timing everything can make a huge difference. This position would also be the main "drop back" or "cutoff" player if needed.

Of course, everything is situational and the dynamic of UT4 ctf is more complicated than dedicated positions!

The most important thing to do as a new player is effectively communicate. Call out power up times, call out efc positions, call out incoming players, call out anything you think is useful at the given time. You will be far more helpful just standing still and making all the right calls then running around the map aimlessly for 20 minutes.
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Re: Questions For PUG Enthusiasts

Postby ttocston » Mon Oct 05, 2015 11:08 am

Great thread!

I'll put together an official term's and questions guide for #ut4pugs soon! Please message me terms or questions you think should be on there and ill organize it all!
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Re: Questions For PUG Enthusiasts

Postby Mulsiphix » Mon Oct 05, 2015 3:18 pm

banks334 wrote:Great info in this thread! Maybe we can add an official "guide" as a link in the irc !Rules function and channel topic.

ttocston wrote:I'll put together an official term's and questions guide for #ut4pugs soon! Please message me terms or questions you think should be on there and ill organize it all!

I've been working on a guide for several weeks now. It is a complete newbies guide to PUGing, which is why I'm trying to understand all of this PUG specific vocabulary. The guide is already finished, and I'm just adding images. Before anybody puts in any real time to developing something, take a look at my guide. It should be up within a day or two.

Of course I'd love to expand the guide as I learn or am given new content to include ;). Thank you banks and chicken-! I really appreciate you taking the time to break this down for me :D.
Last edited by Mulsiphix on Sun Nov 08, 2015 6:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Questions For PUG Enthusiasts

Postby Mulsiphix » Tue Oct 06, 2015 6:53 am

Banks you mentioned a few terms in here that I don't recognize. Can you explain further?

  • Spammer: I know it to be someone who can shock combo the crap out of the flag area. Do you have a more eloquent description :D?
  • Cheesing: Is this just someone who moves gracefully or does this term describe more?
  • String together runs: Do you just mean someone who can go back and forth quickly and successfully or is there more to it? I have trouble deciphering what is authentic new vocabulary and what are just colorful descriptions :oops:.
  • Clutch pickup: What is this?
  • Cutoff player: i was under the impression that when someone on the defense (or captain) says drop back that it wasn't player specific. Kind of a "if you can, then do it" order. Is this instruction really only intended for the Mid player?
Also, a couple questions about your definition of Cover. You say to stay out in front and clear a path but I often provide cover and find danger comes equally as often from the back. Is not having your back guarded considered acceptable risk? You also mention having your trans out in sketchy situations. Could you elaborate further?
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Re: Questions For PUG Enthusiasts

Postby banks334 » Tue Oct 06, 2015 9:21 am

Mulsiphix wrote:Banks you mentioned a few terms in here that I don't recognize. Can you explain further?

Spammer: I know it to be someone who can shock combo the crap out of the flag area. Do you have a more eloquent description ?
Cheesing: Is this just someone who moves gracefully or does this term describe more?
String together runs: Do you just mean someone who can go back and forth quickly and successfully or is there more to it? I have trouble deciphering what is authentic new vocabulary and what are just colorful descriptions .
Clutch pickup: What is this?
Cutoff player: i was under the impression that when someone on the defense (or captain) says drop back that it wasn't player specific. Kind of a "if you can, then do it" order. Is this instruction really only intended for the Mid player?


Spam defender: In my opinion, this is a player who defends primarily with rockets, flak, and maybe even shock combos. You can spam with any weapon, but this vocabulary is commonly used in pugs to distinguish between two different play styles that complement each-other well on defense. In this instance, there would be a player who primarily uses projectiles and a player who primarily uses hit-scan.

Cheesing: A term used to describe a flag runner who uses a lot of intricate movement and piston jumps to evade defenders. Piston jumping off lifts, off walls, through windows, and in other ways.

Clutch pickup: Being "clutch" is a word to describe someone consistently pulling off last second moves to help lead a team to victory. A clutch pickup would be translocating to the flag and snatching it right out from in front of someone about to return it.

Cutoff player: Like I said, nothing is set in stone. It is at your discretion as a player to decide where you will be most useful at any given time. Generally speaking though, you shouldn't have to rely on your primary flag grabber to drop back and return flags. However, if you are in a position to make a cutoff and help prevent a cap, you do it.

Cover: Covering the flag carrier can be chaotic. Your strategy will vary depending on who you are playing against. Generally speaking though, the flag carrier should be capable enough to run backwards. Grendelkeep can be used as a good example of a map where it is often necessary to get out in front of the flag carrier. If you take the flag out enemy flak, the enemy defense will translocate through mid and cut you off at your shock. There is a good chance of losing the flag if the flag carrier goes first.

String together runs: Not a term. Just something I used to describe a player who can consistently get from one end of the map to the other in sync with power ups and the general flow of game-play.

Don't get too caught up in the details. The pugs we have going on right now are pretty diverse when it comes to the player base, so sometimes it's necessary to commit to specific roles. Not everyone uses the same strat. Personally, I do not like playing D with someone always wanting to play "forward." Ladder play/formal matches also vary from what you see in pugs in positioning and strategy.
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Re: Questions For PUG Enthusiasts

Postby pb » Wed Oct 07, 2015 3:41 pm

YO BRO BETTER PUSH UP THE D WHILE I CHEESE ACROSS HIGH MID AND SPAM MY WAY TO THE STICK. I'M STACKED BUT THEY'RE ALL DROPPING BACK ON ME. NO CHERRY PICKS NEED CLUTCH PICKUPS PLZ.

The major thing I've noticed new players need to work on is actually staying in position. That is, if you're playing O, when you die you need to get to your current flag carrier ASAP or make a grab yourself (unless armor is about to be up). If you get the flag back to the base and someone grabs your flag at the last second you need to STAY ON COVER, unless the dude is right in your face. It's always the D's responsibility to get that flag. Don't panic, just kill the people trying to return. Combo and spam the entrances to kill people coming in. If you're playing D just stay in the base, especially if you're new. Don't grab. Don't push up unless it's called for. Just stay near the flag and get it back when it's gone. Stay. In. The. Base. Again, you can get a pickup if it's dropped in front of you.
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Re: Questions For PUG Enthusiasts

Postby Mulsiphix » Sat Oct 10, 2015 4:27 pm

Alright the guide is up now. It isn't finished but so many people are asking about it. Anyway, I still need to implement Banks and PB's feedback and add a little more content. If anybody has any feedback or criticisms, I'd love to hear it. I'm also very open to modifying or adding content.
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Re: Questions For PUG Enthusiasts

Postby Mulsiphix » Sun Nov 15, 2015 3:38 pm

I'm finally working on the vocabulary section again. Had a few more questions for you, if you would be so kind :oops::

Spam Defender:, Banks you mentioned this term, but that is the first time I've heard it. I hear Spammer quite a bit. Do they mean the exact same thing? That is, is spamming synonymous with a play style of defending and does it also describe the general behavior of effectively using rockets, flak, and shock combos to disrupt access to a localized area of the map, outside of your base? Spamming the shield belt or enemy flag stand for example.

Forward Defender: I usually spot these players playing on the outer border of the base (the catwalk outside of shock and sniper on Azcanize or the base of the waterfall, bridge, or open area directly under the bridge on TitansPass). Does this term imply anything positionlly? If it does, does playing forward indicate that the non-forward would stick to the inner areas only (flag stand, rocket room, minigun and health by lift on TitansPass)?

Cover: You said "You should also be the guy with your translocator out in sketchy situations." I don't understand. I thought translocating away from the flag carrier, for any reason, was considered blasphemy. I've been reamed a couple of times for doing this, even when I had weapons left and was trying to quickly grab flak. The carrier argued a piston was better than me leaving his side :oops:.
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Re: Questions For PUG Enthusiasts

Postby detox » Mon Nov 16, 2015 10:19 am

Here's another important term for your vocab section that can be misinterpreted depending on the context.

PACO
[paw-coh]

1. Incredible, amazing, grand in scale.

2. Natural born leader, admin juggernaut.

3. Founding father, pioneer, ahead of their time.

4. Witty, charasmatic, silver tongue.
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Re: Questions For PUG Enthusiasts

Postby banks334 » Thu Nov 19, 2015 2:34 pm

Mulsiphix wrote:I'm finally working on the vocabulary section again. Had a few more questions for you, if you would be so kind :oops::

Spam Defender:, Banks you mentioned this term, but that is the first time I've heard it. I hear Spammer quite a bit. Do they mean the exact same thing? That is, is spamming synonymous with a play style of defending and does it also describe the general behavior of effectively using rockets, flak, and shock combos to disrupt access to a localized area of the map, outside of your base? Spamming the shield belt or enemy flag stand for example.

Forward Defender: I usually spot these players playing on the outer border of the base (the catwalk outside of shock and sniper on Azcanize or the base of the waterfall, bridge, or open area directly under the bridge on TitansPass). Does this term imply anything positionlly? If it does, does playing forward indicate that the non-forward would stick to the inner areas only (flag stand, rocket room, minigun and health by lift on TitansPass)?

Cover: You said "You should also be the guy with your translocator out in sketchy situations." I don't understand. I thought translocating away from the flag carrier, for any reason, was considered blasphemy. I've been reamed a couple of times for doing this, even when I had weapons left and was trying to quickly grab flak. The carrier argued a piston was better than me leaving his side :oops:.


I thought I tried to explain these in other words above already but, maybe I can add some more detail. These aren't supposed to be definitive positions or definitive terminology. These are just concepts of how different players like to play. Being able to recognize what people are good at and using their skills effectively is a part of playing a team based game. It shouldn't have to be taught in a guide, lol.

In the event that that someone says something in a pug like "I am going to play more forward" you should expect them to be out of the base more often. Similar to how you explained it yourself, they might play on the catwalk on Grendelkeep and only pop their head down the lift to check on the flag every once in a while. This would imply that the other defender should stay closer to the flag so it never gets away unseen. Think how Xios plays...

This is where your "spam defender" would come into play. This is simply a player who does well with projectile weapons. Think Dray or Chicken. If you are playing forward and using hit-scan, a good compliment to your defensive strategy would be someone who can sit on and lock down the flag.

As for cover, you don't have your translocator out to translocate away from the carrier lol... you keep it out to get quick pickups if the FC dies. This is more important than even since switching to/from trans is so much slower compared to 2k4. As I stated previously, this is completely situational.
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