Hardcore elements

[RickJames]

So I'm frustrated to see a lack of hardcore elements at this stage of UT4's development, and posting on the epic forums is a nightmare.

1. We have all of these casual-catering things like powerup timers and spawn-choosing/spawn protection, all of which should be disabled in any meaningful competitive gametype.

Part of what has made UT duel relatively hardcore in the past is it's punishing nature. If you make a bad mistake and die, you lose all control and you'll probably die 4-5 more times, either from spawnrape or just the control disadvantage. You don't get the belt time, you don't get a spawn that ensures your survival or lets you get back into the game quickly. It doesn't matter if you have twice the aim or raw reflexes of your opponent- If you do something dumb, he can capitalize and make sure you don't get that gun or have any hope in the next fight. Brains > brawn when map control is rewarded via frags and mistakes have a large consequence.

Of course the game should have a good spawn algo, nothing wrong with making it harder to exploit than the one in UT99. But it shouldn't be totally random or not exploitable by a learned player at all. Part of what make nwTDM in UT99 a much more intellectual gametype than people realized was the ability to position yourself and teamm8s to encourage spawns in certain areas. Lock down belt room on tempest and they'll tend to spawn at ripper, so you can cut them off at bio or shock. Taking that element out of TDM immensely decreases the importance of positions, and makes it into more of a brainless "who shoots the guns best" gametype.

2. On top of that, almost all of the weaps are stupidly easy to hit with. For example, you have to miss pretty wildly to do no damage with flak at a medium range. In UT99, it's not uncommon for top players to miss the mark 3-4 times in a row at close range with flak.

3. The game plays too slow overall. It doesn't require the reflexes of UT99 in many situations, and you can feel it. I wouldn't mind if it was even faster than UT99, closer to the pace of a game like q3 cpma. Snapping off a monster kill headshot on the flagstand should require those bleh-level reflexes.


For a good example of what a hardcore duel in UT99 looks like, and how control is rewarded, watch from 4:12 to the godlike at 7:09 here:

[Blue_Armature]

Yep, I pretty much agree with you on everything. UT4 is just not hardcore, that's the best way to describe it. Movement especially needs to change, it just feels so sluggish and slow. When you dodge it feels like you are floating down with a parachute. Flak and Bio primary spread is ridiculous.

About the spawn system, actually I'd say COMPLETELY random is the best way to go about it for duel. That way you can't know where the other person spawned just because you were in a certain area at the time or were aiming at some specific place. Maybe make it so you can't respawn in the same spot twice, and that's all.

[d3R]

Don't forget a great part of ut99 was it had a good modding scene, if ut4 has that modding capability people can make their own hardcore mod.

[Lineage]

mods will be made, and they will be awesome

[kevinsan1ty]

[Blue_Armature]

[Skoll]

I think i must say something on this. 1st. <3 UT99, best game ever. benchmark for competitive fps until the next millennium. I had friends that back when ut99 was to be released played betas (and these were players that like me play fps since spectrum) and had some complains about it and bugs, some that still persist since. However these same friends were the same that later played unreal1 and ut99 24/7 (leaving quake1 collecting dust ) and couldn't praise it more.
UT4 is in PRE-ALPHA. I doubt pretty much there won't be either mods for competitive play or an already built in mode for it in the final build. I do dislike the way they believe that getting the community involved in the making of the game is such as doing maps and hats (omfg hats???), meanwhile doing what they want with little to no tweaks from community suggestion.
/me has all fingers x hoping UT4 will be the new fps benchmark, not another console fps