Egg on Sulaco

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Egg on Sulaco

Postby ramdrop » Fri Feb 06, 2015 12:20 pm

This one of life's greatest mystery;s, like the classic which came first, the chicken or the egg, this too is a story that needs to be finalised.

For those of you who have no idea what I'm talking about, The Sulaco is an EEV ship that Ellen Ripley crashes in on a double Y chromosome prison planet - the film I'm talking about is Alien, more specifically between Alien 2 & Alien 3.

We'll start with a small background, In thes e first Alien, the Nostromo hones in on a distress beacon coming from LV-426, the ship was on it's maiden voyage home when the crew are awoken from hypersleep to see that mother has altered their course.

It's decided that they would go and investigate the planet, they find a derelict spacecraft (looks like a giant dog shit) and 3 members go inside, Kane, notes some strange eggs with organic lifeform in them, in the next seen, you see the "face hugger" jump and attach it'self to him, he then gets back to the Nostromo and into the infirmary.

They try and get the face hugger off, but they are unable to do so, discovering that it has pure acid for blood and it would kill him in taking it off, they note that it has some kind of tube down his throat and come to the conclusion that it's keeping him alive somehow - some time passes and then you see that the facehugger detaches itself because he wakes up, Ripley finds it on the ceiling of the infirmary. In the next scene, you see that they're all around a table and the alien finally hatches out of his chest (see below).
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..and so the hunt begins, the android on board, Ash, has been communicating with mother and they want him to bring a sample back, all crew are expendable, to cut a long and epic story short, the Alien is jettisoned by Ripley and RIpley goes to sleep and way off of course.

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In Alien 2, she is picked up by the company 58 years (off of the top of my head) later and is grilled by the company as to why she self destructed a company ship costing them millions of $$$. Skipping ahead, they lose contact with LV-426 which was the original planet from Alien 1, this has now been inhabited with teraformers (also known as engineers), their job is to make the planet habitable for others by doing something with the atmosphere. Ripley is asked to go back to the planet in which she reluctantly agrees to.

Her, along with this company berk, Burke and a commando team find no signs of the teraformers about from a little girl (who you see a short scene at the beginning of as her dad is caught by a face hugger - they discover the dog shit ship), the little girl explains to her what happened and when they visit the infirmary, they see 3 face huggers in plastic tubes. Long story short, they discover the colonists by the cooling tower with faint life signs, so being the nosey people they are, they go along to discover its a dirty trap!
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The majority of them die as the aliens swoop in and try and kill them all, a selected few escape and call in the escape craft to get back to the mothership, which funnily enough has an Alien aboard that crashes it is where the famous 'Game over man, game over' line comes from.


Skipping vastly ahead to the final few scenes, Ripley runs after Newt as an Alien tries to grab her and discovers the Alien queen connected up to a large egg sac, she destroys the egg sac and runs back to the ship where Bishop, the android flies her away to the mothership, the Alien Queen somehow manages to get aboard and slashes Bishop in 2, after a funny fight (how she doesn't die I dunno), but she too gets jettisoned into space, remember that point. Ripley then goes into stasis with Newt and Bishop is bagged as he's in 2 halves and the other survivor is injured and put into a pod.

THE CONSPIRACY?

This is where it gets interesting now, at the start of Alien 3, you see small little clips of a face hugger inside the EEV attaching itself to a female face, later its discovered that Ripley has an Alien Queen embryo inside her and that she was the one who got face hugged, but let's look at the facts that the film gives us and how they imply what was seen.

Ripley is impregnated in deep space before the escape vehicle was jettisoned to Fiorina 161 (the prison). You can see the facehugger attached to her in the computer scan of her pod below.
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The pod she is in is not infact, before the escape vehicle is jettisoned, there is a hole.
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So that's it right? That's how she got infected? Well that's what the film showed us, but there are many more different ideas behind it. We'll take a step back and start from the beginning.

There was clearly a facehugger present from the above shots, but who was the host? Newts cryo tube glass plate is cracked by the facehugger injuring it causing acid to spill on the floor, this causes the electrical fire.
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You next see the facehugger on a scan attached to someones face, from this alone and the previous scene, I feel that Newt is indeed the victim. However, a few more shots later, Ripley's face is seen, with no face hugger and she appears to be having some sort of a seizure, she's in her tube, but after the inter cut of a bolt exploding, there is another shot of Ripley with her glass plate cracked open.
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Mystery solved? No.

That suggests that Ripley is the victim, we know this from the film, however, both Ripley and Newt's cryo tubes slide out into the EEV and none of them have a face hugger attached to them.
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The only evidence we have is that Ripley hatches an Alien towards the end of the film, but there is no clear cut evidence that she was indeed the Facehugger's target.
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At the beginning of the film, we see a bio scan shot of the facehugger on one of them, this is true, 100% correct. The warning message says that 'Stasis interrupted, fire in cryogenic compartment, repeat, fire in cyrogenic compartment, all personnel report to emergency escape vehicle launch of deep space lifeboat will commence in t-minus 20 seconds.', we can therefore deduce that the cryo tubes are to be loaded into the EEV, after the warning, you see Ripley with NO facehugger, so that indicates that the impregnation time was incredibly short (considering the first film when it took several hours), so surely one of them should have visible evidence of a face hugger.

At the crash, we see Newt's cryo tube, the crack on the plate is incredibly narrow, this suggests to me that it's too short for a facehugger to get at her.
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There is other evidence off screen that suggests to me that is indeed Newt who was impregnated - this is from the December 1990 draft.
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There was an Alien 3 comic released nearer the time and this I can see as being quite plausible, it's determined that Newt has infact drowned, this is again, from the draft.
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In the comic, there is a picture of an Alien queen coming out of her mouth and then going into Ripley.

So mission accomplished, when you watch the first few scenes, it's hard not to get confused, wrong. 2 hosts, what?

The biggest issue I have with the above, is the Facehugger one. We know and see from the film that a regular facehugger is on board, there is ONE egg, but Ripley is impregnated and so is the Dog(who hatches a fully grown xenomorph like wtf), most people seem to think it's a super facehugger with amazing impregnating powers. However, some of this seems believable because this particular facehugger is relatively larger than normal, it has webbed like fingers and a skeletal structure resembling the queen, this facehugger is supposedly able to lay 2 embryos, one being a queen and the second a normal embryo, this facehugger is not seen in the theatrical cut of the film, but there is a short glimpse in the assembly cut, this gets more confusing because it then suggests that there were infact two facehuggers on board the Sulaco and EEV.
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What makes matters worse is in the normal version of the film, after the EEV crash, we see the dog barking inside the wrecked EEV at the facehugger, this is a standard facehugger, not one of the elite awesome ones. But wait, we know that a facehugger can only infect one person, so was this the one that got Newt? Ripley? Why is it not dead? Were there two face huggers? We definitely know that it attacks Spike the dog, from evidence around the dogs mouth and the fact that we see the Xenomorph hatch from the dog - so eople now think that there were two facehuggers on the EEV/ship, but where was the second egg?
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Alternatively, you just have to convince yourself that this facehugger can lay two embryo's to solve it, late ron in the film, Ripley awakens Bishop, the android and quizzes him about the fire on board, when Ripley asks Bishop, "Was there 'AN' Alien on board," Bishop says yes, AN, to me, meaning singular. So what gives?

So the question I ask to you, is how do you think/know how Ripley was infected with the Embryo?
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Re: Egg on Sulaco

Postby blackout\\ » Fri Feb 06, 2015 12:27 pm

what kind of fucking drugs were you on and can I have some?
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Re: Egg on Sulaco

Postby ramdrop » Fri Feb 06, 2015 12:30 pm

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Re: Egg on Sulaco

Postby HULKSMASH » Fri Feb 06, 2015 12:32 pm

Wait, wasn't she licked by an alien and that's how she got pregnant?

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Re: Egg on Sulaco

Postby ramdrop » Fri Feb 06, 2015 12:35 pm

I can safely confirm that she was not licked by an Alien during the first or second film, at least not on screen, it was a face hugger, by as I've stated in my post, how/what/where
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Re: Egg on Sulaco

Postby kevinsan1ty » Fri Feb 06, 2015 2:19 pm

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aka biz<NeO>/bizmonkey

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Re: Egg on Sulaco

Postby Viperzz^ » Fri Feb 06, 2015 2:30 pm

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Re: Egg on Sulaco

Postby kE- » Fri Feb 06, 2015 2:39 pm

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Re: Egg on Sulaco

Postby HULKSMASH » Fri Feb 06, 2015 2:43 pm

I thought it happened int his bit

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Re: Egg on Sulaco

Postby kevinsan1ty » Fri Feb 06, 2015 4:17 pm

aka biz<NeO>/bizmonkey

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Re: Egg on Sulaco

Postby unrealshots » Fri Feb 06, 2015 5:00 pm

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Re: Egg on Sulaco

Postby Skoll » Fri Feb 06, 2015 5:19 pm

As someone that has discussed this with friends in RL, my conclusion is very simplistic:
1. The Facehugger, that carrys a queen egg also has another egg (a male drone), this has many advantageous points in survivability of the Queen egg. The drone spwans first and starts preparing for the Queen, creating proper conditions for the Queen spawn to thrive and start laying eggs quickly. This biological adaptation answers many questions very simply and is not impossible to phantom.

2. On the fury 161 crash site what u see is newt's cryo with evidence of acid in the glass (leaving a white glazed concave impression on the glass) and the outside, conclusion of this is the egglayer tried to enter but was hurt and bleeding acid all over, and so couldn't in time before the pods went into the EEV so it stayed hidden until it was safe again.

3. The image of the x-ray of the facehugger giving it's kiss is, to me, impossible to understand who it is or isn't. this is answered later when the convicts find only 1 survivor (ofc it's ripley and ofc she is infected). Only thing that makes ppl doubt this is the paradigm that the facehuggers only have 1 kind/type and they lay 1 egg each... well... why does it have to be that way and not any other? So when the dog get's infected... and ripley also.. uuupppss.

4. Sequence of events is aprox. this; first ripley is infected but facehugger gets hurt when leaving her cryo, since he pressurebroke the glass to enter. Then jumps to Newt's cryo but the alarms are off and (this is when the biomed in Ripley's cryo relays the alien presence to the main ships computer and from there to The Company's HQ. It's the X-ray of the facehugger on Ripley). As this is going the evacuation continues and the cryo's (all 4 and the facehugger bleeding all over newt's cryo glass) get dropped and slide into the EEV. Then they crashland on Fury "Fiorina" 161. The convicts get to the crash site and open the doors, the dog detects the facehugger presence, they then proceed to remove the bodies of Ripley (survivor), Newt (deceased), Cpl Higgs (deceased) the bot is scrapped. They them carry the EEV back INTO the jail/foundry facility, now all the facehugger has to do is follow them back and infect the easiest target, the Dog wich is smaller then a human and so less threatening to it.
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Re: Egg on Sulaco

Postby Zac » Fri Feb 06, 2015 5:21 pm

hey Ramdrop i love the Alien series and i got alien 3 for christmas and i've been watching it lately, having to kill off ripley pisses me off btw.
my theory is that the alien on the ship when they were in hypersleep during the fire before the crash on the prison, got to ripley's cat and that turned into some fucked up alien, like the dog alien that was resistant to fire, and that cat alien thing got into ripley's thing through the crack, proposing that a cat alien would be a lot smaller than a regular xenomorph face hugger.

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Re: Egg on Sulaco

Postby Skoll » Fri Feb 06, 2015 5:36 pm

Sry to say but the cat is left at the station, in Aliens2, when Ripley decides to go with the marines and the company to check out the new colony. :(
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Re: Egg on Sulaco

Postby rain » Fri Feb 06, 2015 7:15 pm

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Re: Egg on Sulaco

Postby Darkside » Sat Feb 07, 2015 6:07 am

wow
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Re: Egg on Sulaco

Postby ramdrop » Sat Feb 07, 2015 7:28 am

We forget the cat as it was nowhere near them during Alien 2/3, so that's now out of the equation

The problem I'm stuck with is we know for a fact that one face hugger can only infect one host and then it dies, this is evident in Alien 1 and also throughout the Alien vs Predator series.

The other facts presented to us during the 3rd film is the dog is infected and a xenomorph breaks out of his chest, but Ripley is also infected with a xenomorph queen.

The things that are not explained is:
- How did the 'egg' get on the Sulaco?
- How many face huggers were there?

I presented the theory above, when Ripley sees the cryo tubes, its believed to be either Newt's or Hicks' tube, this indicates to me that there were the face hugger's first target.

The Alien comic says that it is a super facehugger that catches Newt and leaves an Alien queen, when it attempts to get at Ripley, the acid burn causes the electric fire which causes Newt to drown, the queen then leaves Newt through the small gap that is evident and goes down Ripley's throat.

When you see Newt, her face is wide open and her hands are up, more like a scared response that she knew what was coming, so does that mean the facehugger tried to get Ripley? Things that don't make sense here however are:
- Newt's posture if she drowned, she wouldn't have her hands up and her mouth wide open, the body would have gone limp and her arms would have dropped.
- If the face hugger got her, her face wouldn't stay the way it did.
- The open mouth suggests that the Alien Queen left her, but then the hole on the cryo tube doesn't suggest this.

I think this is overall a large amount of speculation and without talking to Vincent Ward who wrote the Alien series, we'll never know for sure.
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Re: Egg on Sulaco

Postby Lineage » Sat Feb 07, 2015 10:37 am

Welcome to Hollywood Inconsistency. Where scars and eye patches switch sides like Benedict Arnold.
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Re: Egg on Sulaco

Postby tigerclaw » Sat Feb 07, 2015 11:11 am

Alien 3 was a poor film which basically just killed everyone

It's no wonder there are plot holes

but for the sake of argument;

- how do we know there was only a single egg?
- ingestion for the queen may not take as long than for the regular xenomorphs
- newt's so cute, why did she have to die fu film :oops:
- does the face hugger(sounds rapey) die after impregnation?

i haven't seen the films in a while, if it doesn't die it stands to reason that it can make more babies, idk about you man but after a quick rest and stretch i'm usually good to go :lol:

tl;dr you should lay off the 2cb
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Re: Egg on Sulaco

Postby ramdrop » Sat Feb 07, 2015 11:51 am

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Re: Egg on Sulaco

Postby tigerclaw » Sat Feb 07, 2015 12:01 pm

Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth.

Also, if you read the works of Arthur Conan Doyle rather than worry about plot holes in bad films you'll probably have a better time of it.

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Re: Egg on Sulaco

Postby Skoll » Sat Feb 07, 2015 12:07 pm

The Aliens3 was in part a return to the 1st Aliens closed environment and pursuit of 1 male drone vs poorly armed humans, wich was one of the suspense elements that made Aliens1 a great sci-fi/thriller hit. Aliens3 was also used to bring new elements we didn't know about the aliens, we got to know new things about them in every film as new kinds of aliens.
Before Aliens2 we never seen the queen or imagined it's existence since that in aliens1 the feeling is that the eggs are in some sort of storage bay of the alien ship, (btw stick to the movies or the comics, they don't support each other story) this is again reinforced in the latest Alien movie Prometheus that introduces the Engineers. So, if, the Aliens species is engineered, and they were able to kill of a colony of ultra advanced engineers (lv-223) and kill the last one when he tried to escape in a transport but crash land it in lv-426 were ripley's ordeal starts, this is obviously a very adaptable species, they even take on some features of the embryo host (as we see in the behavior of the male drone in Aliens3, and also in Alien vs predator2).
It may feel wrong but when u think of the situation u can understand why there was only 1 egg/facehugger in Solaco but he carried 2 embryos.
See other Queen/male drone communities (insects and the likes) and u will see that in many of them the queen embryo has almost 0 chances of surviving alone and many times when she goes to make a new colony she takes worker drones from the old colony with her. Also the queen can control what kind of egg she lays, male drones or new queen or even fertile male to search for a new queen and start a new colony.
So again i insist on this point, there was 1 facehugger with 2 embryos, it makes sense that the queen would put this kind of facehugger egg in the sulaco since she knew/felt that her original colony in lv-426 was destroyed and she herself was in eminent danger, thus a 2 embryo facehugger. 1 male drone, for protection (Alien Queen seems engineered to be born pregnant, like the tribbles in star trek or the Aphids in our very own earthly plants) and the Queen embryo to start off a new colony. Many of what i explain exists in our own world, so why is it so hard to get it in a sci.fi movie? i don't understand...
Oh 1 thing, the egg wasn't exactly "in" the Sulaco, it was most probably within the landing gear of the drop ship were the queen hid. Think of it as an emergency egg lay in a stressful state for the Queen.
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Re: Egg on Sulaco

Postby Sonic|^ » Sat Feb 07, 2015 12:12 pm

Watch Prometheus.
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Re: Egg on Sulaco

Postby ramdrop » Sat Feb 07, 2015 1:06 pm

@Skoll - Appreciate what you're saying but let me ask you this: How did the egg get on the Sulaco?

@Sonic - that proves nothing, the "ink" in the vases is the parasite, the small worms you see in the dirt get infected with the parasite, no explanation for face huggers at all.
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Re: Egg on Sulaco

Postby blade » Sat Feb 07, 2015 3:18 pm

what in god's name is the opening post.. I read first half of the post, and those images made me lose the stomach to read beyond the first half :lol:

Honestly, I saw parts of the first Alien.. Beyond that, not really interested. I don't like horror movies.
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Re: Egg on Sulaco

Postby tigerclaw » Sat Feb 07, 2015 3:54 pm

Alien isn't really a horror so much as a scifi film/bit of a thriller

Good film too, would recommend

Aliens is a plain scifi thriller, still decent but like 10x more whacky

Alien 3 is depressing

Alien resurrection is like aliens only intentionally whacky

AVP is just terrible for the most part
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Re: Egg on Sulaco

Postby Skoll » Sat Feb 07, 2015 7:48 pm

How the egg get on the sulaco?
Me and ppl i talked to about this have it as the real big problem, not the 2 embryo in 1 facehugger.
This is because, in all know examples of communities that are organized similar to the Aliens community, the egg laying queen has a special organ that engorges and transforms, sometimes getting bigger then the queen herself, as the queen gets prepared to lay the thousands of eggs she has fertilized within her. Now, in the earthly examples the queen needs that organ to lay the eggs, with some exceptions like bees, but in a universe were a race is able to create life (the Engineers), and many kinds of species, one can admit that the facehugger can actually be laid by the queen without the egg protective shell, shell that in all movies related seem more as a life support vessel with a proximity sensor for the facehugger then actually something they need to "grow" in.
With this im saying that the egglaying tube the queen leaves behind, in Aliens2, when chasing ripley isn't actually needed to lay a facehugger, but to make the egg around it. In all that sequence we see no other eggs other then the ones ripley destroys and no facehugger chasing them (or it would have instinctively try to attack). One has to be as creative as the Engineers that made the Alien species to think this with some reasoning.

So we were creative and think this could answer that, although somewhat unsatisfactory:
As seen in Prometheus the species made in Lv-223 have a programmed (genes?) evolution and life cycle, they grow and evolve in a predicted way but with subtle changes according to habitat. One could see the Queen as a breading multitasker, if she has a controlled environment she evolves the egglaying tube and lays the sort of long term shell around the faceghugger, if she isn't in a controlled environment, like in the cramped space of the landing gear bay of the dropship from were she pops out of to split bishop in half, then she could lay a much smaller egg (size of the facehugger and little more) that would have a much lower life expectancy as quicker maturing of the facehugger, but that's alright since the queen needs new re-enforcements fast.
If she would have stayed alive and killed everyone on board the queen would have probably consume or destroy that egg and remake the egglaying tube somewhere comfy.. like in the sulaco's "basement" and make a new bunch of long term eggs.

So in conclusion, the egg shell is only needed for long term survival of the facehugger, but the queen can lay a smaller egg. So the tube isn't necessary for the laying of the egg, and that's why she can lay one in the dropship landing gear bay, infecting ripley, etc...
Why all this long term or fast mature differences? Simple. The facehugger, after leaving the egg food supply (seen in Aliens1) and protection has a short life cycle (around 24-48h if we take the Aliens1 facehugger life cycle) and it will die whether or not he infects something with an embryo, since it is not intended to eat or search for food but only to search, immobilize and infect a living creature.
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Re: Egg on Sulaco

Postby Skoll » Sat Feb 07, 2015 7:59 pm

Forgot to explain 1 thing. We took a long time to trying to figure out.
In Aliens2 the facehuggers in the laboratory/medical that are still alive are so because they are in a oxygenated and nutrient rich solution that kept them alive, sort of artificial wombs that im sure they would have in a colony lab/medical, this somewhat would emulate what the facehuggers would have in their long term egg shells.
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Re: Egg on Sulaco

Postby ramdrop » Sun Feb 08, 2015 9:29 am

Could be plausible to say that one egg carried one face hugger and the second was a result of what Burke put on the Sulaco, there are 3 tubes when they first see the Facehuggers in Alien 2, 2 are later broken and those 2 facehuggers attempt to own Ripley and Newt, so that's plausible that the third is already aboard the Sulaco and the crash causes the tube to break?
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Re: Egg on Sulaco

Postby Skoll » Sun Feb 08, 2015 6:37 pm

If i remember right there are 2 live and 2 dead facehuggers, as bishop reads from the laboratory log. So unless there is unreleased footage i didn't see of the aliens2 movie, i have to guess that the 2 live facehuggers are the same released, by burke, to infect newt and ripley and then killed by the marines.
Besides this i don't see how burke, being a cowardly character, would be brave enough to take a facehugger alone (and survive trying that). Also i think that burke couldn't have had access to either dropship or the sulaco during the whole event in the colony, he was seen all through the movie along one or more marines (even in the first encounter the marines have with the drone male aliens, he is in the Armored Transport Vehicle, ATV). After this first messy encounter they are stranded with the loos of the ATV and the dropship that brought them there. So they fall back to control and send bishop to bring remotely a new dropship. By the time the dropship arrives only bishop, ripley, hikks and newt are left alive and they go rescue newt.
We see no chance of any kind of alien reaching the new dropship, until the Queen shows up the lift (how did she knew how to do that? xD ).
Only possible outcome exists that would fit a bit more the dual facehugger/egg hypothesis instead of the solo facehugger i have been more supportive in the previous posts and that is that simply the queen lays 2 eggs in the dropship landing gear bay, they are well hidden there, when they hatch one infects ripley and one fails do infect newt and drowns her, with the emergency procedure ongoing the one that infected ripley gets loose and onboard of the sulaco as the fachugger that failed on newt goes down with the EEV to Fury-161.
I personally don't like this, i think that with characters like the engineers in the mix one has to think the aliens species is more amazing and adaptable then we can ever think of ( i recall the end of Aliens1, i believe there is a Alien male drone Popsicle still alive floating in space hehehehehe) and therefore i believe more in a adaptive survivalist scenario and also by all other adaptations the alien have given us in the aliens and avp series and some earth biology.

I leave u, and all others that could have some curiosity about the Aliens universe, with a handy webadress:
http://alienanthology.wikia.com/wiki/Al ... e_Timeline
Enjoy ;D
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